Is this RUT?

For help and advice on the Garmin Zumo XT2.
gwilki
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by gwilki »

The end point is on Hazeldean just after the turn off of Terry Fox.

So, the entire route is start on Terry Fox just south of Campeau, continue south on Terry Fox to Hazeldean. Then, turn right/west on Hazeldean. I ended shortly after that turn. There is a large parking lot there that I can use to turn around and head home.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada
jfheath
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by jfheath »

OK - so here is what I have.

Gwilki BC Route Map.png
Gwilki BC Route Map.png (761.09 KiB) Viewed 620 times

I couldn't tell exactly where you placed Terrry Fox Drive - so I put it at the place where Basecamp shows that the route has just divided into two carriageways heading SE. (I've rotated the map 45 degrees to get more of it in the rectangle !!)


I placed the bike roughly where you pointed - about on the stop sign at the junction between Gray Crescent and Campeau Drive. That way the bike is free to turn left or right onto Campeau drive - there is no suggestion to the XT2 that we prefer to be heading left or right on the map.


I got just two results from 8 different tests.

Route 1 - Heading right to pick up the 417.

31614.png
31614.png (926.48 KiB) Viewed 620 times

Route 2 - Heading left along Campeu Drive

50817.png
50817.png (973.69 KiB) Viewed 620 times



The Tests

For the route I carried out all 8 combinations of selecting


Calculation Mode: Faster Time or Shorter Distance:

Calculation Mode.png
Calculation Mode.png (86.24 KiB) Viewed 609 times


Route Preference : Faster or Shorter.

Route preference.png
Route preference.png (718.12 KiB) Viewed 609 times
This is the preference which is attached to the route and usually over-rides the Calculation mode.


Starting Route: Closest Entry Point vs Start Point

No diagram needed for that ! That gives 8 different combination


The Results

Results.png
Results.png (75.69 KiB) Viewed 609 times

What happens depends on how the route is started.

If you select the start point, then the route to the start is always calculated by the routing preference that is set for the route itself.

If you select Closest Entry Point then that section of the route is controlled by the Calcualtion mode preference set in Settings->Navigation.


Whether Campeau Drive is faster way or a shorter way than to go than Route 147 isn't up to us to decide. The Zumo thinks that Route 147 is faster and Campeau Drive is Shorter. When heading for the next point, if there was a fast road nearby, the XT seemed to head for whichever was faster - getting to the actual point or getting to the fast road that would take it to the point - as if it took no time at all to reach the point once you were on a fast road. I have good indications that this may not be the case with the XT2.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
gwilki
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by gwilki »

@jfheath Your route is close. It should start on the other side of 417. So, between Campeau and the 417 on Terry Fox. Mine ends sooner than yours on Hazeldean, but that's no matter. You are correct that I am sitting on Gray just off Campeau when I start the XT2 navigating.
I did as you advised. I created the route on the XT2. Two points - the start on Terry Fox just left/south of Campeau (this is north of the 417) and the end on Hazeldean just right/west of Terry Fox. I started it running on Gray near Campeau. This time, it did exactly what it should do. It had me turn left onto Campeau from Gray and follow that to Terry Fox. Then another left on Terry Fox. It announced the start point on Terry Fox, then a few metres later, told me to continue to Hazeldean, where it told me to turn right.

So, clearly, there is something in the route created by BC that differs from the seemingly same route created on the Zumo. Since I have no intention of trying to create routes on the XT2 small screen, I need to determine how to best have BC talk to it. I'm going to create this last route on BC again, but have the start point on Campeau some metres from the turn from Gray.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada
jfheath
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by jfheath »

Oh - really ? Your map earlier shows the start on the south side of the 147.

Never mind - the results of my test are interesting if not entirely reproducing your problem.


To build the route on the XT2 exactly - create your route points as Waypoints in Basecamp. Transfer those to the Zumo.

Build the route using the Waypoints. I jotted this down in a post last night or early this morning - but I was on my ipad and working from memory. I'll do it with XT2 in hand.

Assuming you have your waypoints in the XT2;

Apps Icon -> Route Planner. You get the map that looks like this

21438.png
21438.png (553.15 KiB) Viewed 605 times


The start button should be selected, and the route pref - FAster Time.
Tap the magnifying glass
Select Waypoints
Choose your waypoint from the list - you may need to navigate collections to find it.
Select 'Select'

A Flag will appear on the map where your waypoint has been placed.


The Start button has changed to stop. Make sure it is selected. Tap the magnifying glass
Waypoints-> Choose the waypoint->Select
A straight dotted magenta line appears briefly on the screen, and it then changes to a route.
Click the black disc icon, bottom right.
Give your route a name.
Done


Select Go - or back out of it and find your route in Apps->Route
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
gwilki
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by gwilki »

@jfheath re: terry fox start point.

I caused the confusion JF. Sorry about that. In my posts, I started with the screencap of the longer route that did, indeed start south of the 417 on Terry Fox. When that one took me east, then west then south, it did start at the start point. I was curious to see what it would do if the start point was north of the ramp exit on Terry Fox. So, when entering Terry Fox, I would be going the wrong way to pick up the start point. I did not post screen cap of that one. I just described what I was trying to do.

That's when things went haywire. It also took me east and onto the 417 then west back to Terry Fox. But, it was that one that then turned south and ignored the start point altogether.

Both of these were using the closest point as the start point. When I then used the actual start point, it was still with the route that started north of the 417. That was the one that wanted me to make a u-turn after getting onto Terry Fox from the 417.

Again, my apologies.

I will follow your most recent instructions to build another route in BC and report back.

Thanks very much.
Grant Wilkinson
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jfheath
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by jfheath »

I'll have a go at that but just report back briefly if anything different occurs.

Closest Entry Point will very often miss the start point - the difference between aiming for a point and aiming for a line !

No need to apologise - we are hampered by having a simplex conversation - one person at a time, with a significant time delay and very little opportunity to immediately pick up on the small stuff. As for fading memories. . I'm sure I answer the same thread with the same information more than once. I daren't look back to find out ....
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
gwilki
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by gwilki »

@jfheath Tks much. I forgot to mention that I like your sig line. With all those Garmins, I can understand the "headache".
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada
gwilki
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by gwilki »

@jfheath Today's trial was a success. I followed the advice to set the start point closer to home. I set the start point on Campeau about 50 metres west of where I would start the navigation. I set a shaping point just after the intersection of Campeau and Terry Fox. Next shaping point was just after the next turn onto Palladium. Next just after the turn onto Silver Seven. Final was just after the turn into the Home Depot parking lot.

I start navigation on Gray just off Campeau and set the starting point as the start point on Campeau. The XT2 sent me left/west onto Campeau. (finally) It announced the start point when I reached it, then told me to continue to Terry Fox. From then on, it told me to make the turns that I would expect to make.

In short, the advice to set the start point closer to where I was sitting when I started the navigation proved to be the solution to my "wrong direction" issue.

As an aside, I wrote to the Garmin to ask why the unit would allow me to go the "wrong way" telling me to make a u-turn only after travelling another 3 km in that wrong direction. After agreeing that this may seem illogical to me, he concluded with the canned line, "it's by design". It would be really great to be able to talk to the people who create these "designs".

Thank you all very much for all your time, patience and advice. This has been a very educational experience.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada
jfheath
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by jfheath »

That's good.

My comment previously about the missed start point being significant - was made when I thought you were selecting the start point. Selecting Closest Entry Point will almost certainly not pass through the start point. So the videos that I found with the disappearing shaping point - were wide of the mark for the same reason. Still relevant, but in a slightly different scenario.

Your observations then may suggest that CEP has gone through some improvements. I'm not going to find out - that testing took me forever - partly because they were developing it as I tested. No sooner had I got a handle on it, than the next update changed behaviour again.

You don't have to have the start point close to the point where you are located. But the Zumo will calculate its own route based on the routing preferences set in the Zumo - not the routing preferences set for the route. (My table indicated this to be the case) and we know that the XT would head for faster roads - and go out of its way to reach one. The XT2 - I've yet to form an opinion. It behaves differently and better in the few situations that I have tried. That's as much as I can say.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
Oop North John
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Re: Is this RUT?

Post by Oop North John »

jfheath wrote: 10 Jul 2024 18:28 But the Zumo will calculate its own route based on the routing preferences set in the Zumo - not the routing preferences set for the route. (My table indicated this to be the case) and we know that the XT would head for faster roads - and go out of its way to reach one. The XT2 - I've yet to form an opinion. It behaves differently and better in the few situations that I have tried. That's as much as I can say.
I have the definite feeling that the "fastest" on the XT2 has similar problems as the XT :(