Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Having Garmin zumo XT problems? there is loads of help and advice in this forum
sussamb
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by sussamb »

Interesting. If so that's different to how it worked previously. When you send the data to your device or card from BaseCamp what is the filename sent by BaseCamp? Having sent the first one what is the second filename called?

As far as I have always seen the file sent is named temp.gpx. Unless you therefore either change the name or disconnect your device and reboot it any second or subsequent file sent is also named temp.gpx and so overwrites earlier ones. It's caused issues in the past. I'm unable to check whether that behaviour is different now but will be pleasantly surprised if it's changed.
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by jfheath »

Hang on Folks - you are talking about different things.
Sussamb is talking about routes transferred to internal Storage, Russ is talking about Routes on SD cards. Both have their problems but the problems and their behaviour is very different.

I have no time now - but I'll come back later and explain - because poor @Raf must be struggling with this in a foreign language ! In the meantime, this link contains the relevant information about the problems that @sussamb described (P27) and the behaviour that @rbentnail is talking about (P28).

app.php/ZXT-P23

Relevant info is on pages 25, 27 and 28. Just click Next/Previous to get to them.
  • I have just spotted an error on these pages. I mention 'Internal Memory' a few times. I need to correct that to say 'Internal Storage' (as opposed to SD card).

I have corrected P25 now.
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by rbentnail »

sussamb wrote: 26 Apr 2022 06:16 Interesting. If so that's different to how it worked previously. When you send the data to your device or card from BaseCamp what is the filename sent by BaseCamp? Having sent the first one what is the second filename called?

As far as I have always seen the file sent is named temp.gpx. Unless you therefore either change the name or disconnect your device and reboot it any second or subsequent file sent is also named temp.gpx and so overwrites earlier ones. It's caused issues in the past. I'm unable to check whether that behaviour is different now but will be pleasantly surprised if it's changed.
Let me be extremely clear here:

- I am NOT sending routes "to your device or card from BaseCamp". Leave the word DEVICE out. I have not tested this with internal memory nor am I likely to. I think I described very clearly exactly what I did using ONLY the SD card for data storage.

- I have no idea what the filenames are, nor am I likely to check. Honestly, I don't feel the need to delve so deeply, I just need to know what works for me. I transferred routes with the inclusive waypoints to my User Memory, i.e., the SD card, using two differing methods and all routes previously stored on that same SD card were not overwritten.

- All I was concerned about is answering the OP's question by presenting him with one option of operation, which I think I did.
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by Raf »

jfheath wrote: 26 Apr 2022 07:16 …….. poor @Raf must be struggling with this in a foreign language !
This is my problem. Thanks jfheath.
If you allow, I would like to repeat.
My 6 day trip includes 6 routes with wp, many are not on the route. These are places I may or may not visit.
What is the best way to program?
I had thought to do: I transfer from Basecamp to the microsd.
Route :01 Day1; 02 Day2 etc etc
WP: 01 WPx ; 01 WPy ……. in the route 01 Day1
WP: 02 WPz ; 02 WPj……. In the route 02 Day2
First day: i transfer from microsd to XT Route and WP of the 01 Day1.
Second day i transfer route and WP of the 02 Day2. First i delete everything from the Zumo.
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by rbentnail »

Ok, I think I see what you are asking. So it will become clearer if these were actually split into 2 independent questions since waypoint storage and route storage are handled differently by the XT.

You say "6 routes with wp, many are not on the route". I assume this to mean "I have a route for day 1. I also have waypoints that are not part of that route that I may want to visit that day. I repeat this for each of the 6 days of my trip."

So, for only the routes, putting them on the SD card as I described in an earlier post will allow you to import a route, follow it, and then delete it at the end of the day. That route will still be on the SD card, you can remove it when you get home using Base Camp.

For waypoints, I cannot help you. Waypoints are alien to me- I generally do not use them. And in your case like where you would like to see one on your XT if you are near it, I have no idea how to make them display or have any name or label that makes sense. There have been several threads about labels and displaying them but I haven't been able to understand the information enough to figure it out. If I do have a waypoint, I put it in Saved places as a favorite. But even then it does not show up on the map unless I select it.
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by Raf »

Ok you understand what I want.
Forgive me for my bad English.
I am reading “Zumo XT and Basecamp - Everything That You Need to Know” post very carefully.
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by danham »

sussamb wrote: 26 Apr 2022 06:16 Interesting. If so that's different to how it worked previously. When you send the data to your device or card from BaseCamp what is the filename sent by BaseCamp? Having sent the first one what is the second filename called?

As far as I have always seen the file sent is named temp.gpx. Unless you therefore either change the name or disconnect your device and reboot it any second or subsequent file sent is also named temp.gpx and so overwrites earlier ones. It's caused issues in the past. I'm unable to check whether that behaviour is different now but will be pleasantly surprised if it's changed.
This may be different for my zumo 660, but I don't think so. It is why I always export files one at a time from BC to my desktop. At that point you can change the filename (which is by default named for your start/end points as you create your route in BC or you can override that) to whatever you want, BUT it does not change the name that will appear in the GPS menu. Therefore, I open the file in a text editor and find the <name> Route name here </name> tags and change it to what I want displayed in my zumo. Then I connect the zumo or mount its SD card and drag them.

-dan
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by jfheath »

Wow. This thread is getting a bit complex - with some excellent information but also with some mis-understandings.

Some of the issues arise because although the original post mentioned routes going to the SD card, later posts reveal that some are in Internal Storage. There is a very big difference between the way that these two locations behave with transferred routes on the Zumo XT.

I will try to explain.


Transferring Routes to Internal Storage

Routes that are sent from Basecamp to the SD card behave differently from routes that are sent to Internal Storage. It doesn't matter whether they are transferred using the File menu, the Device menu or by using the Drag and Drop method. It is your choice - the results are the same, so it doesn't matter whether you send routes individually, or you send a lot at the same time.

If Routes are sent to Internal Storage, all of the routes that are sent during the same USB Session are sent to a single file (called temp.gpx). While the USB cable remains attached (and Basecamp can still see that the Zumo XT is connected) this file remains available to add new routes to it. So you can send as many files individually as you wish. Or you can send 10 routes at once and then another 20 routes. You will end up with 30 routes in the temp.gpx file.

It doesn't matter about the filename - Temp.gpx is just where the XT stores the routes that are transferred to Internal Storage from Basecamp.

When routes are transferred to Internal Storage, any waypoints that are in the route are automatically stored somewhere in the ZumoXT memory, and they are made available from the XT screen in the Where To->'Favourites' (or 'Saved' locations - depending on the language settings).

Once the routes are in Internal Storage, they remain in the temp.gpx file and you can then import them into the Zumo XT. They get saved in a separate part of memory and are instantly available in the trip planner to be loaded and run. You can even delete them from the XT memory. The temp.gpx file still contains the transferred routes - so you can import them again if you wish.

But internal storage has a problem associated with it.

The problem comes if you do all of this, and then realise that you have forgotten to transfer some routes.

If you later re-connect the XT to Basecamp with the USB cable and transfer 3 more routes, this forces the Zumo to start a brand new temp.gpx file (deleting the previous one), and all of the 30 routes that were transferred before re-connecting the XT with Basecamp will have disappeared ***. When you select the option to import your routes, only the three that you transferred in the last USB Session will be available.

*** It is not connecting the USB cable that deletes temp.gpx - it gets deleted as soon as you start to transfer more data.

As long as you imported all of the routes after transferring them, you will still have 33 routes available in the Zumo XTs memory. Any of these can be selected to Navigate by clicking ' Go! ' But if you edit it or if it gets altered when riding, you can delete it from the XT imported route memory, but you cannot import it again unless it was one of the 3 routes that you transferred in the last USB Session.

Note that after a while, if there is no activity, even if the USB cable remains connected, the connection is shut down. That is the equivalent of disconnecting the cable.


Transferring Routes to the SD Card

The above problem does not exists if you transfer routes to the SD Card. In this case each route is given its own file name in the Garmin/GPX folder of the SD card. These will be called Route.gpx, Route0.gpx, Route1.gpx, Route2.gpx and so on. All of the waypoints that are sent as part of the routes are stored in a single file called Waypoints.gpx

These files will remain on the SD Card until you manually delete them, which means that routes are always available to be imported. You can import as many as you want or just one from the XT screen. You can delete as many as you want from the XT memory using the XT screen - it doesn't delete the original transferred file. (Just like deleting routes from XT memory doesn't delete temp.gpx in Internal Storage).

At some point, the XT may create additional Waypoint files - called Waypoints0.gpx, Waypoints1.gpx, ... and so on. This seems to happen if later transfers happen after the USB cable has been disconnected and re-connected. (Similar to the issue with temp.gpx).

Using the XT screen you are not aware of how the files are stored or what the filenames are - but at some point you may wish to reduce the number of routes that you have available to import. The only way that you can do this is when the XT is connected to the PC with a USB cable.
A file explore will give you access, but you can also delete items using Basecamp. Routes on the SD card are displayed by name.

But using the SD Card has a problem associated with it.

The problem is to do with Waypoints. Waypoints are not loaded into XT memory when the route is transferred. Neither will it import the Waypoints when the route is imported. You have to Import the Waypoints manually. But here is the catch. Without any Waypoints already stored in the Zumo's memory, it refuses to look for any that are on the SD card. The solution is simple, but I'll talk about that later.


Individual Comments
Peobody wrote: 25 Apr 2022 00:27 When you transfer a route from Basecamp to the Zumo XT its associated waypoints go with it so you don't need to transfer them specifically. If you ride the route as designed in Basecamp then it will include those waypoints.

When I first started working in Basecamp I thought it was valuable to consecutively number the waypoint names in a route with a numeric prefix for the benefit of having them listed in the same order as they appear in the route. The problem with this is that it adversely affects how they are displayed on the XT as well as with the voice instructions. For instance, if you have a waypoint at 1212 Capitol Avenue and you name it "01_1212 Capital Avenue" then it is displayed like that on the XT and is announced as something like "zero one one two one two Capital Avenue". I don't name waypoints numerically any more. It helped in Basecamp but that was all.
This is spot on. To add a little more - Sometimes, (eg when skip is pressed) the XT mentions the point by name, which is an improvement. Often though, the name that the XT gives is is different from the name given in Basecamp. ie the XT will change the name given for route points. But it never does that for Waypoints. The XT always keeps the name that you have allocated in Basecamp. Having a name or a sequence number (or I use a mileage if I don't know the area) really helps in working out where the route point is.
sussamb wrote: 25 Apr 2022 06:21Everytime BaseCamp sends data to your device it sends it as a file named temp.gpx regardless of anything else you do, so sending one lot of data after another will simply result in only the last lot of data being available.
This is true if the USB connection has been broken. As I described above - you can send a group of routes, then select another group of routes and they will all be added to the same temp.gpx file - providing the USB connection has not been interrupted in between the two transfers.
If it has been interrupted, the only way to make sure that your XT has all of your routes available for import is to transmit all of your routes again.
Peobody wrote: 25 Apr 2022 13:34
Raf wrote: 25 Apr 2022 08:00 Every day of the trip I transfer the route and its WP that interest me on that day.
There are many WPs not included in the route. Places I might or may not visit
These comments are what confuse me. I understand transferring routes and other WPs that may be of interest to the XT's SD card but what is the value of importing a route and other WPs? Won't the XT require you to select a WP destination which it will then route to, and then do the same for the next WP? Am I missing a method by which you can import a route and then add WPs to it within the XT? Maybe I am completely misunderstanding the ultimate goal.
Waypoints are designed specifically to allow you to save locations in the XT memory. USA call them 'Saved' locations (switch the language to USA to see). UK call them favourites. If visiting a particular area, you might want to be able to create a route to include particular attractions, but you don't want to create a lot of 'maybe' routes. Creating a route on the XT can be a real pain, but if you have a few Waypoints stored in Favourites, it can be very easy. (Just to be clear - a Waypoint is one that has been created in Basecamp with the Flag / Waypoint tool. It is not simply any point on a route - which is the way that some navigation software uses the term 'Waypoint'.)

If a true Garmin Waypoint is already included as part of a route, it automatically gets added to Favourites if the route is transferred to Internal Storage. If transferred to SD card, they have to be imported manually. Waypoints that are not part of the route have to be transferred manually.
The easies way to do this in BAsecamp is to use 'list folders' in BAsecamp and have a spearate list for each day. In the lower left hand window pane in Basecamp, where your route appears, any waypoints that are created within that list will also appear with the route. If you create a track from the route (recommended) then that will appear in there as well. Ad-hoc route points do not appear in this pane.
It is easy to then transfer the entire list to the XT, and that will include all of the waypoints including the ones that are not used in a route. Putting a number in front of the Waypoint (I use a date) will help to identify the Waypoint in the list of XT Favourites. Waypoints will not be transferred twice (eg the one that appears in the lower left pane and the one that is used in the route).
Raf wrote: 25 Apr 2022 18:09 I would like to ask you another question:
Can I send everything to Zumo ( internal Storage) i transfer all my data in a single USB "session", without disconnecting it between transfers , and also to microsd ?
Yes, you can do that - but then when you import the routes into the XT, there will be two entries for each route - one from the routes transferred to internal storage (in temp.gpx), one showing the routes on the SD card. I think that the ones on the SD card show up after the ones in internal storage - but it is a while since I checked on that.
Peobody wrote: 25 Apr 2022 18:47 When you transfer routes to the SD card they are available to be imported on the XT.
That import copies them to internal storage so I guess there wouldn't be any harm in copying them to both places. The routes copied to internal storage would just sit in temp.gpx until they were imported.
This is correct @Peobody - but a little confusing.

When you transfer routes to the SD card they are available to be imported on the XT.
When the routes on the SD card are imported, they are copied into XT memory.
The routes that were transferred to internal storage would just sit in temp.gpx until they were imported.
When you import routes, the XT will show a list of available routes in Internal Storage AND on the SD card
If you transfer routes to both place, two copies of each route will be listed as available for import.
sussamb wrote: 26 Apr 2022 06:16 When you send the data to your device or card from BaseCamp what is the filename sent by BaseCamp? Having sent the first one what is the second filename called?

As far as I have always seen the file sent is named temp.gpx. Unless you therefore either change the name or disconnect your device and reboot it any second or subsequent file sent is also named temp.gpx and so overwrites earlier ones. It's caused issues in the past. I'm unable to check whether that behaviour is different now but will be pleasantly surprised if it's changed.
Temp.gpx contains numerous routes - as many as were transferred. As far as I can tell, in the past (590 etc), this file was appended to, so temp.gpx became very large. With the XT, it creates a brand new one if the USB connection has been broken since the last transfer.

When routes are sent to the SD card, one file is created for each route. Route.gpx, Route0.gpx, Route1.gpx etc.

When I first switched my Zumo 590 to be a 595, Internal Storage also showed this file structure. I haven't investigated since I came across this odd behaviour with the XT.

Technical / programmer's comment

I am wondering if the issue is to do with MTP and Mass Storage Mode. You cannot edit files when connected using Media Transfer Protocol, so you would not be able to open a file for append. If you want to change the contents of a file on the XT, you have to download it, open it, edit it and then save it back.
With the 590 and earlier, it was always possible to have the Zumo in Mass Storage mode - to behave like a disk drive. In this case files can be opened for append. I wonder if Garmin's programmers were aware of this, asked for the file to be opened in append mode, and it has failed and just opened it for write mode. ie create a new file.

I have more to add about Waypoints. But I need to get out on the pushbike.
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jfheath
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by jfheath »

More Explanations related to the above discussion

Routes Not Created from Basecamp

GPX files can contain Routes, Tracks, Waypoints and various other items. They can be in separate files or they can be all bunched together into one gpx file. As long as the gpx file is stored in either of the two locations below, the XT will read them, and (hopefully) make sense of them.

Locations:

Zumo XT/Internal Storage/GPX/any_filename_you_want.gpx
Zumo XT/Memory Card/Garmin/GPX/another_filename.gpx

  • GPX files can be created by Basecamp using File -> Export and Choosing the gpx file format. (Interesting to note that there is the option to create kml files which can be loaded into Google Earth and you can fly through your route in Glorious 3D - but that would be a whole different topic).

    They can then be dropped into the appropriate folder using a File Explorer or Folder Browser.

    The GPX file can be emailed to your mobile phone. If it had Garmin Drive on it, when you click the attachment the phone asks you what program you want to use to open the gpx file. Select Garmin Drive, and Drive asks if you want to send it to the XT.

    This gets copied into Internal Storage/GPX - but before you go throwing up your hands in horror, it completely by-passes temp.gpx and cannot be affected by anything that you do on the XT.

    You can share files from one Zumo to another by Bluetooth. These too are stored in Internal Storage and by-pass the issues with temp.gpx.

    If you use MyRouteApp, there is a facility called Connect which allows MRA to have access to your computer and it transfers data from there to the XT by USB cable. But a couple of options along, you can email your exported route to your phone - without even having to touch your own email program.


WayPoints

  • Waypoints have a particular purpose in Zumos. They are points that have been created and saved prior to making your route (although there are some ways around this). They contain additional information.
    For the purpose of routing, Garmin Routes have a Start, End, a few Via Points, and probably a few more Shaping Points. A Waypoint can be used in a route as either a Via or a Shaping Point. or it can be simply sent to the XT to keep for future use in its list of Favourites or Saved Locations.


Waypoints do not change name in the XT
  • Before the 595, it was possible to name any route point in Basecamp and the Zumo would retain the name that you gave it. With the 595 and the XT (and possibly the 39x Zumos, but I don't know), many route points will have their name changed by the XT when it receives them. Many, but not all - something I have not yet worked out. However - points that were first created as Waypoints seem to NEVER have their name changed. When visiting new places, my routes have Many Waypoints - because I want them to keep the name that I allocate.


'Lost' Waypoints
  • When Waypoints are transferred to the XT becasue they are part of a route, they are automatically imported and added to the Favourites/Saved area. If they are not part of a route, or the route is transferred to the SD Card, or they are in a gpx file that is placed in the GPX folder on the XT - then the Waypoint have to be imported.

    And it is this that can present a problem. If you are in the habit of just using the SD card, then it is likely that there will not be any Waypoints that have been imported. And in this situation, the XT is unable to find any Waypoints to import. You know that they are there, because you transferred them. You know that they have to be imported. The Zumo says that there aren't any available.

    You won't know what I am talking about unless you try it.
    1. Go to Where To->Favourites. Delete them all.
    2. Transfer a new route containing some Waypoints to the SD card.
    3. Restart the XT.
    4. There is no notice about new trips.
    5. Where To->Favourites : No Data Available.
    6. Apps->Trip Planner->Saved Trips : No Trips available -> Spanner ->Import : Select the trip that you have just transferred to the SD Card.
    7. Load it in, start it. View the route points. Say Go ! It works perfectly.
    8. Main Screen -> Where To -> Favourites : No data available. No option to import them. It as if they are not there.

    9. Main Screen->View Map -> Tap the map in an open area. A blue/white flag appears. If not, tap the map again.
    The bar at the bottom gives a caption. Tap it. Click Save. Click Save again. Give it a name if you have to. Exit back to the main screen.
    You have just added a waypoint to the Zumos Favourites.

    10. Main Screen->Where To->Favourites. Your saved Waypoint is now visible.
    11. Spanner->Import: Now your list of lost Waypoints appear. Select All->Import. All found.

    I have seen on two occasions where this has also happened with Routes sent to Internal Storage. I think when placing the routes into GPX manually, but am not sure. It doesn't matter. The solution is the same. Use the XT map to create a single favourite. All of the missing favourites will then be available for import.
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Re: Travel planning tips – Basecamp and Zumo XT

Post by Raf »

jfheath wrote: 26 Apr 2022 20:00 .............................
9. Main Screen->View Map -> Tap the map in an open area. A blue/white flag appears. If not, tap the map again.
The bar at the bottom gives a caption. Tap it. Click Save. Click Save again. Give it a name if you have to. Exit back to the main screen.
You have just added a waypoint to the Zumos Favourites.


Or it is sufficient always have only one WP( home, hotel or other)

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