Tyre to XT

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MakoShark2
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Tyre to XT

Post by MakoShark2 »

I'm an old Tomtom + Tyre user now with a Zumo XT.

So I'm used to pick a set of Waypoints in Tyre transfer them as an itinerary to the SatNav unit and let it find the best route.

That was the way I was using Tomtom and it seemed to work fine for years. Now Tomtom didn't made much use of tracks (at least until now which seems to be available on the latest units). I'm aware about the differences between routes and tracks and I know Garmin is been using both since a long time.

Tyre will actually generate both (it uses google maps for routing).

So I was pleasantly surprised when Tyre allowed me to transfer my itinerary (gpx) directly to the XT.

I would then open the itinerary in the Trip Planner and all waypoints were there.
Track seemed also to be loaded as it was drawn on the map with narrow blue line.

So from understanding...
Track (which was calculated by Tyre) is drawn with a blue line but navigation (magenta line) finds the path from the waypoints.

I transferred two or three itineraries like this and it was working all as expected.
But last weekend I've done same process and I got the "Unable to calculate path" message...
Tried to erase some waypoints on Tyre but no matter what it was still unable to find a path.
After 1 hour fighting I decided to try basecamp... :roll:
Basecamp imported the Waypoints but gave a weird routing, had to correct it with several shape points to make it look like it was in Tyre.
Transferred to XT and finally the Trip Planner would accept the route.
I then erased all shape points on the XT and it had no problem on finding a route by itself, so definitely not a waypoint problem.
At this time it could only be the track calculated by Tyre which may had a bit of the path in some weird road that the XT couldn't found...

Could this be right?

Also is it possible to store only the waypoints on the gpx with no track data and load it in the Trip Planner?

Thanks.
jfheath
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Re: Tyre to XT

Post by jfheath »

MakoShark2 wrote: 16 Jul 2021 18:29
After 1 hour fighting I decided to try basecamp... :roll:
Basecamp imported the Waypoints but gave a weird routing, had to correct it with several shape points to make it look like it was in Tyre.
Transferred to XT and finally the Trip Planner would accept the route.
I then erased all shape points on the XT and it had no problem on finding a route by itself, so definitely not a waypoint problem.
At this time it could only be the track calculated by Tyre which may had a bit of the path in some weird road that the XT couldn't found...

Could this be right?
From your eye-rolling emoticon, I guess that you haven't realised the significance of your first statement. Basecamp took your TomTom route and managed to make something of it. Up until that point, you had failed.

There are plenty of people who are prepared to spend money on using 3rd party software to create routes and routing points that simply do not recognise all of the features of a route that the XT uses.
Whatever you may think, it is worth spending a bit of time learning how to use Basecamp to create your routes. It isn't difficult, and will save you falling into the same trap as others - blaming their Zumo for problems that have arisen purely as a result of using routes from other apps.

in your case, Basecamp has read your gpx file (the one used on tomtom). It has stripped out all of the 'rubbish' that it doesn't understand, and has converted the rest to be compatible with the zumo.

Let me explain that. GPX is a standard file format - but when that format was created, different software companies complained that stuff that they wanted in a gpx file hadn't been catered for. So the formst was adapted to allow software companies to create their own features using gpx extensions. They appear as <gpxx > tags in the file. If software doesn't recognise it, it makes it easy for it to be ignored. Like other companies, Garmin uses gpxx tags a lot to add their own features.

So i am guessing that some features of your original tomtom route have been lost in translation, which is why you had to add additional shaping points. But I haven't seen the file, but from your description it would be my best exolanation.

The transfer to XT then went well from Basecamp.

The maps used by tyre and those used by Basecamp are different. Route points may be located on a road in one map, but not quite on the road on a different map. I once managed to superimpose a Google route onto a Basecamp route. They followed a similar shape but rarely did the two lines coincide. I was zoomed in, but the difference was more than the difference between two sides of a dual carriageway.



MakoShark2 wrote: 16 Jul 2021 18:29 Also is it possible to store only the waypoints on the gpx with no track data and load it in the Trip Planner?
Yes. Don't allow Basecamp to calculate a route. Use the direct profile for this - it will show on the Basecamp screen as straight lines. When the Zumo receives it, it will calculate the route - using your Zumo motorcycle avoidances and with navigation set as faster time.

But - why ? If Basecamp is having problems with the points from your TomTom route, then so will the Zumo - and you are forcing the Zumo to calculate the route as soon as it receives it. It will have exactly the same issues that Basecamp had with the same points. But you will find it harder to spot them on the Zumo screen. All you will have done is tackled the symptoms and not the problem - which probably lie with the original route drawn on different maps.

The first time you come across the problem will be when riding. And then you will become one of the increasing number of users to blame the XT when all it has done is follow instructions that you have given to it.

A few tips.
Make sure the map on Basecamp and the map in Zumo are identical.
Always force Basecamp to recalculate the route when you have loaded it in
Check: edit - options - device transfer in BC. Make sure all boxes are unticked
Use the route properties dialog box to 'center map' to check the position of each route point in turn
If points are not placed precisely, them move them so that they are.

Make sure that you know the difference between shaping points, via points and waypoints. If you remove all of the shaping points from a Zumo Route, what you are left with is Via Points, not Waypoints. Some of the shaping points that you removed may have also been Waypoints. I think I hinted at this in a post to you on Aug 4th.

Post one of the problem gpx files from tomtom. Let me take a look at it.


Footnote.

The Xt will navigate routes
It will follow tracks which do not alter but will show you the direction and distance back , if you wander if course.
It will also navigate a route created from a track, with no routing points. If you wander off course it will navigate you to the point on the route that is closest to your current position.
It will also display a track of your route at the same time as the route, so you can always see the original when the XT recalculates.
ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone
MakoShark2
Posts: 22
Joined: 29 Jun 2021 12:06
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Portugal

Re: Tyre to XT

Post by MakoShark2 »

Thanks for the comprehensive answer.

So I guess my suspicion was right which is completely understandable (different maps so different paths).

I've been using the XT extensively lately (just got back from 2500km/1550mi trip) and I believe that I am already perfectly familiarized and adapted.
Can't say the same from Basecamp that interface is from medieval times to say the least but I've manage to set up my own planning routine and very happy with it. I'll plan the route with Tyre (google maps style) and instead sending directly to the XT I'll save the file as a Tomtom itinerary. Next convert the file to GPX with GPS Babel and import the latter to basecamp. That will get me the waypoints/viapoints list nicely into basecamp (Tyre supports waypoints and viapoints but for some reason when exporting to GPX all points are converted to waypoints which I found will not happen with GPS Babel).
From basecamp (which I've previously loaded with the XT maps) I'll then do the "calculate route" and give it a quick check before sending the route to the XT.

I actually have not blaming the XT (or basecamp) and still don't. As a motorcycle nav sat I would say not perfect but very close and far more evolved than the Rider 550, they really do not play on the same league.
jfheath
Posts: 640
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Location: West Yorkshire, Uk
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Re: Tyre to XT

Post by jfheath »

MyRouteApp has started to allow the creation of Shaping Points and Via Points - like Garmin uses. The gpx is in beta version at present, but it seems to do the job, although like any route other than ones from Basecamp, it will recalculate on loading.
At the time of writing, they do not have the facility for using Garmin Waypoints - which are normally stored in the XT in Favourites / Saved Locations.
But they may well be on to that. It is a farily simple modification to the gpx file.
ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone

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