New Firmware

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jfheath
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Re: New Firmware

Post by jfheath »

I took a look at your track and thought - 'why is the straight bit dotted' ? So I converted a normal road route into a track on Basecamp, sent that to Zumo and imported it. Excuse my thinking out loud in this post - much of this is stuff I hadn't come across before.

First of all, the ability to turn on or off an individual track is there on mine (v6.10) Select the track, the map shows up with a spanner in top left corner (landscape mode). Click the spanner and a 7-item menu pops up. Show on Map is the 5th item below Share, Name, Set Colour, Track Width. A single tick box, which turns on the single track.

What I had not realised was that having selected a track, you can press 'Go' and the Zumo XT plots the track and looks as though you are navigating a route. Turn on the Trip Data display and it shows how far off course you are. I too get the dotted straight line display. It joins where I am now to the start of the track. Excuse the image below - it is cobbled together from two different screen shots - to show the blue data display on the right. You can tell it is a 'mockup' - it shows me as being 0.5 miles off course. I'm actually about 30 miles from the start of the track. I could not get it to zoom out to show the entire track and keep the data display on the screen.

The magenta line is the track being navigated, including the straight line route to get to the start. The yellow halo effect is the original track - made visible and set to its widest - the only way that I could make it show up underneath the magenta line. It appears where the magenta line is solid. You may need to click on the image to get a better view.
Image3.jpg
There was no long delay in calculating the magenta line. The startpoint was the nearest point. I wonder if in your case the twisty turny nature of you track it was trying to find the best place to join ??

This is all new to me - I've been looking at the behaviour of other aspects. Was this feature to display a track as a navigable magenta line there before 6.10 ?

As for needing to reset it - if its not doing what you expect, then its not a bad idea, and its one of the first things tech support ask if you have done. But you will lose your archived trip logs - so copy the 'Archive' folder from the GPX folder and the CurrentTrackLog.gpx from the GPX folder if where you have been is important to you.
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ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
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JS_racer
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Re: New Firmware

Post by JS_racer »

jfheath wrote: 22 Mar 2021 14:56 I took a look at your track and thought - 'why is the straight bit dotted' ? So I converted a normal road route into a track on Basecamp, sent that to Zumo and imported it. Excuse my thinking out loud in this post - much of this is stuff I hadn't come across before.

No problem, thank you for the time.[

First of all, the ability to turn on or off an individual track is there on mine (v6.10) Select the track, the map shows up with a spanner in top left corner (landscape mode). Click the spanner and a 7-item menu pops up. Show on Map is the 5th item below Share, Name, Set Colour, Track Width. A single tick box, which turns on the single track.

I have different options called collections, these were made in garmin explorer, to help group routes and things. before every track was able to be selected to be displayed. I am unable to do that now.

What I had not realised was that having selected a track, you can press 'Go' and the Zumo XT plots the track and looks as though you are navigating a route. Turn on the Trip Data display and it shows how far off course you are. I too get the dotted straight line display. It joins where I am now to the start of the track. Excuse the image below - it is cobbled together from two different screen shots - to show the blue data display on the right. You can tell it is a 'mockup' - it shows me as being 0.5 miles off course. I'm actually about 30 miles from the start of the track. I could not get it to zoom out to show the entire track and keep the data display on the screen.

if i hit go, i choose start to finish, or finish to start, if i choose say start to finish, it tries to calculate a path to the start, then creates the dotted line,

The magenta line is the track being navigated, including the straight line route to get to the start. The yellow halo effect is the original track - made visible and set to its widest - the only way that I could make it show up underneath the magenta line. It appears where the magenta line is solid. You may need to click on the image to get a better view.

correct, the after the dotted line is the area and desired roads i have chosen to travel. the dotted line is useless getting me to the desired roads i want to travel. i am able to change avoidance, say uturns, then it recalculates the directions for the dotted part, and it works, problem is it tossed away the desired track i wanted to ride.

Image3.jpg

There was no long delay in calculating the magenta line. The startpoint was the nearest point. I wonder if in your case the twisty turny nature of you track it was trying to find the best place to join ??

not sure if it tries to get you to the start, or somewhere close. it definitely was a long delay to get to the dotted line

This is all new to me - I've been looking at the behaviour of other aspects. Was this feature to display a track as a navigable magenta line there before 6.10 ?

yes, I believe so.

As for needing to reset it - if its not doing what you expect, then its not a bad idea, and its one of the first things tech support ask if you have done. But you will lose your archived trip logs - so copy the 'Archive' folder from the GPX folder and the CurrentTrackLog.gpx from the GPX folder if where you have been is important to you.

well, yours has been reset recently, and its doing the same thing as mine is. doesn't seem like its on my end, but not sure.


thanks much for your time.
trying to remember how i was able to do this last year.
i did find, if i take the track, convert it to a trip, then start, it seems to work better. no dotted line. and with a single track displayed in the map view, i might be in business. the dotted line is still not good. i called, submitted a video, photos, and information. it might help.
now for the bazillion tracks shown compared to just 1, thinking if I create a folder, called today or something, then the track i am able to group in that folder, then have that category displayed....... that might work. that seemed to work great. each track can select categories on the fly to be apart of, so i'll call that good enough
(long long time tomtom user, got the xt mid last year, coming our of winter hibernation now, so trying to remember, lol) one bike I can have both, the second bike has less bar room.
jfheath
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Re: New Firmware

Post by jfheath »

Right.

You are 'navigating' a track. Tracks don't behave the same way as routes.

Routes use the navigational powers of the Zumo to calculate a way the road network to get you from one fixed routing point to the next. On the way it can detect if you have wandered away from the route, and if you have it can plot a different way to get to the next point. If you allow it to make such calculations. If you don't allow it, then it goes quiet and leaves you to sort your own way back to the route. As soon as you join the route it starts to talk to you again. If your route starts 10 miles up the road from where your bike is parked, the stanav will plot a way to get you to the start point and as soon as you get there it will follow the route.

But you have loaded a track, and have selected 'Go'. This was the bit that was new to me. I didn't realise that they had made this possible. A track is a series of very short straight lines joined together to closely follow a track or trail. The Zumo cannot 'navigate' you along your track - there are no roads or plotted routes in the map (not that it is using anyway). It is simply drawing the track on top of the Zumo map and you are following it.

A few of us often superimpose a drawn track onto the map when we follow a route, so that it makes it easy to see when the Zumo has deviated from the original route.

But this situation is slightly different. The zumo has plotted a magenta line, it is following the original track, but it is not doing any calculations. You can put the Trip data at the side of the screen and ask it to show 'Off Course' data, which will indicate how far away you have wandered from the intended track. It will also indicate where the end is and give you an ETA and a distance countdown. And it will show your speed. But there are no spoken words, no turn directions and no recalculations.

You can achieve the same effect by creating your own route of short (or long) straight lines, set the routing preferences to off-road (which from v6.10 is relabelled 'straight line' on the Zumo set of preferences), and turn recalculation off.

Alternatively, you can load in a track from explore, and get the Zumo to convert it to a trip. (There is an option after selecting a trip from the Explore App on the Zumo).

This gives you a warning that if you try to edit the route or the routing properties or preferences, the trip will be discarded and a new one will be calcluated.

So - your off road route which sets off some way from where you are has a problem. The route that is loaded has come from a track which is a series of short straight lines which do not 'navigate' on any roads - ie the Zumo isn't following roads. It is following a line that it has been told to follow regardless of the map that it is plotted on. It has been set to not recalculate, and there are no routing preferences that it need worry about.

And because of that - it cannot plot a route from where you are to the start of the track. All of those features have been turned off. Any attempt to get it to navigate that first bit - the dotted straight line - will mean turning those features back on - and that means that it will attempt to calcualte a route using roads that it knows, not the track or trail that you want to follow, which will then be lost - which matches what you have found out.

This makes perfect sense to me. I think if you want to get to the beginning of your plotted track, you will need to make a route from here to there. When you get there, stop the route and load the track.
ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
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Plainmad
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Re: New Firmware

Post by Plainmad »

Anyone else find that on the new firmware when you import a GPX route it takes ages to add it do the trip planner.

I use myroute planner for planning my trips and will save the GPX files onto my phone open them and the Drive app will automatically transfer them to the Zumo.
Then the route would be viewable in the trip planner and whilst it would just show as a straight lines until you changed a via point to a waypoint or started the trip and it would then calculate the route fairly quickly.

Now however as soon as the route is downloaded it takes ages to calculate the route straight away. Now whilst I didn’t have an issue with it doing it straight away it seems to take much longer than when I did it on the old firmware. Any ideas?
Keef
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Re: New Firmware

Post by Keef »

jfheath wrote: 20 Mar 2021 19:33 I have no experience of this particular issue, but I can make a few suggestions.

1). Clear out your imported routes from the Zumo screen. Apps->Trip planner->saved trips->3 bar menu and delete all trips in there.
2) With USB connected, delete temp.gpx and current.gpx
3) Start up the Zumo by unplugging the USB cable

Then try connecting the USB cable again and transfer a route. See if that works.

If not, a reset might be required.

If you have any tracks that you want to keep, take a copy because this process will delete them. It will also delete any BT and Wifi settings.

On the zumo:
Show the map, tap the speedo button. On the new display, press and hold the circular speed display. hold for 10 seconds.
In the next menu select Clear all user data.

See how that helps. Recently I have had a few oddities - eg things not working properly or keypresses being registered without me being near the screen. Usually after an update. A reset has cured whatever was going wrong.
If you talk to support, it is one if the first things that they get you to do.
OK I nearly followed the script above . . . . Cleared out the Imported Routes as per Point 1. And at this point I also cleared the Archive Folder as that held a couple of Gurrent.GPX files.
Then Points 2 & 3.
Bingo. Result. Everything seems normal again.
JS_racer
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Re: New Firmware

Post by JS_racer »

For comparison, my tomtom will route me to the closest part of the track, and continue routing the rest of it, making changes as needed to keep on the track. It works tons better, for sure.
I bought the xt for the live weather, it probably was a mistake. One bike more than on occasion add the tomtom mount on the 2nd ram ball.
I'll play with it more since Myrouteapp.com does via and shaping points now. I'll also play more with converting to trip
Already found a work around for all the tracks being displayed, I can select ones to be displayed like before.
Wish me luck, testing again this weekend
JS_racer
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Re: New Firmware

Post by JS_racer »

Sorry if that came off grouchy, didn't intend for that. Thank you all for your time and efforts, I greatly appreciate it.
( I'm a guy who has say 40 tracks plus for areas I travel to, plus markers on like 50 roads, so I can pick a road, adventure routing, and have a good time seeing new sites. The tomtom adventure is ten fold better than the Garmin. Also the tomtom has a search, so when you have a lot of something, you can find it easily based on how you named it.)
Looking forward to making the most of the xt, the way it can suit me best. Dragging a group around Friday, so I will have the xt, with my tomtom on the bar for backup.
Here's to a great trip, and having fun with friends.
I do like tons about the xt, honestly.... Lol
jfheath
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Re: New Firmware

Post by jfheath »

Plainmad wrote: 23 Mar 2021 19:44 Anyone else find that on the new firmware when you import a GPX route it takes ages to add it do the trip planner.

I use myroute planner for planning my trips and will save the GPX files onto my phone open them and the Drive app will automatically transfer them to the Zumo.
Then the route would be viewable in the trip planner and whilst it would just show as a straight lines until you changed a via point to a waypoint or started the trip and it would then calculate the route fairly quickly.

Now however as soon as the route is downloaded it takes ages to calculate the route straight away. Now whilst I didn’t have an issue with it doing it straight away it seems to take much longer than when I did it on the old firmware. Any ideas?
Some thoughts.

Make sure that you have only one map ticked for the area. Eg if you have CN Europe NTU ticked and also have OSM maps installed and ticked, then that can cause problems. It didn't on mine when I just tried it, but I know that it has done on other occasions.

Experiment with using v1.0 and v1.1 for the file to export from MyRouteApp (if that is the software that you are using).

If you are planning a route in (say) the alps, and you are setting starting the route from the UK, you can expect to take forever - it has to navigate you to the start !

Is it taking a long time to import the routes in Trip Planner or is it when you load the route and try to run it?

Comment

Your statement "changed a via point to a waypoint" rings alarm bells with me. You cannot change a Via point to a Waypoint. Waypoints (in Garmin terminology) are locations that you save before creating a route. They are what the XT refers to as 'Favourites'. A route on the XT is made up of Via Points and Shaping Points. Either of these could have been made by using an existing Waypoint, or by simply dragging and dropping the point onto the map. Either method works, and either point can be made into a shaping point or a via point. They behave differently when the route is being navigated. Waypoints / Favourites have additional charactersitics which make them useful.

** It is unlikely that your software uses both via and shaping points when creating a route - they were features introduced by Garmin for Zumos with the trip planner app - the 590, 595 and 39x units, and now the XT. Your software will probably use one or the other. You will be able to tell on the map that the XT draws, as it shows Via Points as orange flags, and shaping points as blue circles. I think the Zumo interprets the points from MRA differently depending on which version of GPX file you select.
** I am informed by @JS_racer (below) that this information is out of date and that MyRouteApp does now cater for both Via and Shaping Points.

But the XT has what has a fault which has yet to be rectified. On the zumo screen, if you change a Via point flag to a shaping point blue circle, the point may move to a different location. It's OK changing them the other way (shaping to a via).

A better way of forcing recalculation is to change the routing preference (eg straight line to faster time) or vehicle type (eg car to motorcycle). That always forces a recalculation, and it can then be put back to what it was.

I'll gladly take a look at your route and see how my XT behaves with it and try to sort out what the issue is. I'm currently investigating little foibles to put together a booklet of information that is would be useful to fellow XT users. Send me a Private message if you want to do this. I'll send you an email address.
Last edited by jfheath on 25 Mar 2021 10:43, edited 2 times in total.
ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone
JS_racer
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Re: New Firmware

Post by JS_racer »

myroutapp most definitely does via and shaping points.
https://support.myrouteapp.com/support/ ... waypoints-
then saved as the gpx 1.1 beta designed for the XT.

"You are 'navigating' a track. Tracks don't behave the same way as routes." well, i am trying to navigate TO a track ;)
jfheath
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Re: New Firmware

Post by jfheath »

JS_racer wrote: 25 Mar 2021 09:43
myroutapp most definitely does via and shaping points.
https://support.myrouteapp.com/support/ ... waypoints-
then saved as the gpx 1.1 beta designed for the XT.
Many thanks for the update - they have obviously improved things since I looked last. Their definitions of Waypoints etc seem to be a bit different from the way that Garmin define them. But the gist is there. I'd better head over to MRA to see how it has improved.
JS_racer wrote: 25 Mar 2021 09:43 "You are 'navigating' a track. Tracks don't behave the same way as routes." well, i am trying to navigate TO a track ;)
Yes, I realised that. The requirements for navigating to a point are different from the requirements to follow a track.
Eg on a track, the way forward must not be recalculated - it must stay exactly as drawn. There aren't any directions to give.

When navigating to a certain point, the Zumo is expected to give instructions and to recalculate (if you allow it to) to find a route to the required location should you wander off course.

The problem is that you can't have both in the same file - although it would be an interesting experiment to mess around with the gpx file to see what happens.

As as far as I am aware, in order to get to the start of a track, you would have a few options.
  • Save the start of a track as a favourite. Get on the bike Where To->Favourites->choose the start of the track.
  • Create a route to get you to the start of the track.
In both cases, when you get there, load the track and say Go.

OR

Include your way to the start of the track as part of the track itself. But it won't navigate you.

There may be other ways, but I haven't come across them. I'm learning the XT the same as everyone else.

I'll go and correct my previous post regarding MRA before the search engines find the information I posted which is clearly out of date.
ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone

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