Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

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jfheath
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Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by jfheath »

I have stopped trying to find ways in which the XT doesn't work. That chaleenge has become far too easy ! I want to find ways that do work for me on an actual trip, so this week I ventured into the unknown for a couple of days and relied entirely on routes prepared on my IPad using MyRoute App (MRA), which were transferred wirelessly to my XT.

I created Routes MRA and set the Via Points (Hand Icon) and Shaping Point (Tear Drop icon) - A couple of Vias for stopping places, so the data display on the right hand side of the display can show distance and time to the next stop - which my pillion finds extremely useful. Shaping points which just force the stanav along particular roads.

I set the navigation preferences on the XT for the motorcycle to be faster time, and I disabled Off Route Recalculation, and I set avoidances for Motorways and Unpaved Roads. (Not that the XT should be recalculating any routes - but just in case). Traffic was enabled, but was set to optimise on request.

My route was sent to the XT using MRA's gpx v1.1 (Route, Track, POIs) This method retains all of the Vias and Shaping points and I find it to be the best format for use with the XT.

The track was loaded and displayed on the XT screen (I use a theme which makes the track display slightly wider than the route, so that the edges peep out either side of the magenta line). THis was of little consequence, because when I deviated, the route did not recalculate anyway, so both track and route stayed put.

When you deviate from a route with Off-Route Recalculation set to Off, the Zumo stays quiet. It stops navigating. It keeps track of the next route point, but issues no instructions to get to it. Providing you do not miss any Via Points, when you get back onto the magenta line, the voice and navigation prompts will spring back into life. If you do miss a via point, then the banner will tell you where it is trying to take you, and you have the ability to skip that point.

I found that this silent, non re-routing form of navigation was much better than the relentless attempts to navigate ypu back to the point where you first deviated from the route.

Sending the Route to the XT.

My Ipad does not have a SIM card. My Phone is an Android, and that is paired to the Zumo by BT, and it is the Android that has the Drive App. THis makes the process of getting the gpx file to the XT a little more awkward. I do have the Drive App on the Ipad, but that means pairing the ipad to the XT - and then re-establishing the XT links to the phone before I set off. Pratting around with BT connections is something that I avoid. It never works out well with helmet on and gloved hands.

So I send the gpx file form MRA to my phone by email. There are a few ways of doing this. MRA has two email options - one in the Save Menu, the other in the Share menu. The one in the Save menu seems to take a long time to be sent out from MRA's server. In my experience, the first one goes quite quickly and any subsequent ones take longer than I was prepared to wait. The email option in the Share menu requires the route to be made public.

The other way is to use the Save menu and save the gpx v1.1 (Route, Track POI) file. It can then be downloaded to the ipad and sent by email through the normal email client to the phone. When the phone receives this, click on the attached file, and the Drive App opens up and asks if you want to sen it to the XT. Whent he XT is turned on it immediatley receives the route.

It actually stores the route with date and time in the Internal Storage/GPX folder of the XT, (eg shared_from_phone_07-29-2022_16_46_42_179.gpx). It automatically imports the track to the Tracks App, and the Route to the Trip Planner App. These cannot be deleted by using the XT screen menus, so they are always there to re-import if you wish.

A much easier way to get the route onto the XT would be to have MyRouteApp installed on the phone as well as on the iPad. The phone app will access the same route that was prepared on the Ipad, so if you select the Page Menu and save the route as a gpx v1.1 (Route, Track POI) file, and then when the message indicates that it has been saved appears, click on Export. The Android pops up a list apps to export it to, one of which is Garmin Drive. Select that and the route goes direct to the XT.

So why use the ipad at all ? Well, it has a bigger screen and my fingers are too large and my eyesite too poor to be able to make effective use of the Android screen for placing points accurately. The email method came about as most of my planning work is done on a PC at home.

Some Good Points about using MRA
  • The HERE maps are the same as the Garmin's - so route points should be plotted accurately for the stanav.
  • It is quite easy to plot a route - focussing on route points - when away from home with either a tablet or a phone.
  • Transfer tot he XT does not require a cable
  • The transfer by-passes the Basecamp issue of overwriting the temp.gpx file on the XT.
  • Routes can be deleted from the XT's list of transferred files, and re-imported.
  • RoutePoint names allocated in MRA are not changed by the XT to something else, as they are when using Basecamp.



Some Issues with Using MRA
  • The term 'Waypoint' in MRA refers to any named route point. It does not create a point that will be treated as a Favourite in the XT.
  • gpx v1.2 recognises Via and Shaping points. The route that is transferred to the XT is identical to the one plotted in MRA, but none of the shaping points are transferred. If the route needs to be recalculated (eg if skip is pressed) there is nothing to retain the places where shaping point pinned the route in place. The XT will calculate the fastest route between all pairs of adjacent Via Points.
  • gpx v1.1 only sends the Via Points and Shaping Points. The XT has to calculate the route between the plotted route points. This means that the route that the XT produces may be different from the one that was plotted in MRA. But this will happen anyway if Off Route Re-calculation is allowed, and always if Skip is pressed, or traffic detours are allowed. The track will be identical, so displaying this in addition to the route is a useful way to catch such differences.
  • There is no way that I have found to create a point that Garmin recognises as a Waypoint, and that the XT recognises as a favourite.



Renamed Route Points.

One of the practical issues I have with the XT is that it often changes the name of my route points to something else.
I like to use a day number and a mileage in front of my route poihts - particularly if going abraod, when I have no idea where places are in relation to each other. So one of my last jobs before transferring tot he XT is to make the route points say something like 04 123 Aysgarth Coffee.
That has a meaning for me, and if it is a waypoint - in my list of favourites - I can use that if I need to change plans and get me to a particular location by the fastest means.

But the XT tends to change the name of points - unless they were first created as Waypoints / Saved Locations.

But points from MRA do not get changed. So why is this ?

Here is a definition of a route point from Basecamp.

<rtept lat="55.971565246582031" lon="-4.910202026367188">
<time>2022-05-27T22:00:48Z</time>
<name>03 147 Hunters Quay</name>
<sym>City (Small)</sym>
<extensions>
<trp:ViaPoint>
<trp:CalculationMode>Direct</trp:CalculationMode>
</trp:ViaPoint>
<gpxx:RoutePointExtension>
<gpxx:Subclass>1401C475CC01078010010500000000000000</gpxx:Subclass>
</gpxx:RoutePointExtension>
</extensions>
</rtept>
And here is the same route point defined and saved in a gpx file from MyRouteApp.

<rtept lat="55.971565246582031" lon="-4.910202026367188">
<name>03 147 Hunters Quay</name>
<extensions><trp:ViaPoint/>
</extensions>
</rtept>
The Subclass line seems to have a bearing on the renaming of the route point. Or perhaps it is the calculation mode.
To check this out I substituted the Basecamp line :
<gpxx:Subclass>1401C475CC01078010010500000000000000</gpxx:Subclass>
with this one:
<gpxx:Subclass>000000000000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF</gpxx:Subclass>
In the original, the XT changed the name of Hunters Quay, with the substituted line it did not change the name.
The 0's and F's represent a binary code - 0 is 4 zeros, F is 4 ones. What they actually mean doesn't seem to have been published anywhere.

The MRA trick of leaving out all of the extra information, allows the XT to calculate whatever it needs when it receives the route points.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
mad-dawg
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Re: Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by mad-dawg »

Hi John
Thank you for the work you do, much appreciated.
I am curious, your method to send the route from MRA to XT is 1.1, load the track and load the route. This has worked well about 70% of the time for me but as you mention if the XT gets a chance to recalculate then it goes for the fastest route to the end or the start. ( I have to admit I had recalc prompted on, so that probably scuppered things). On UKGSER the accepted method seems to be use 1.1 or 1.2, ignore the route but convert the track to a trip within the XT. This apparently forces the XT to use the way/via points and it sticks to the planned route. Have you tried this method please?

I dont mind having just the track to follow because the XT has recalculated and wants to send me back to the start point in Berwick when I am in Moffat. :lol:
Your tip about auto recalculation being off should stop it doing that!

Cheers
jfheath
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Re: Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by jfheath »

mad-dawg wrote: 31 Jul 2022 17:10 Hi John
Thank you for the work you do, much appreciated.
Thank you sir, much appreciated !
mad-dawg wrote: 31 Jul 2022 17:10 I am curious, your method to send the route from MRA to XT is 1.1, load the track and load the route. This has worked well about 70% of the time for me but as you mention if the XT gets a chance to recalculate then it goes for the fastest route to the end or the start. ( I have to admit I had recalc prompted on, so that probably scuppered things).
I am not sure where I said that - it is true in some situations, but not if using MRA's v1.1 gpx format. MRA's V1.1 gpx format sends just the start, end and all of the Via Points and Shaping Points. It does not send the route. It leaves the XT to calculate it from the Via and Shaping Points. There is a (sort of) advantage in that, in that if the route has to recalculate, it should come up with the similar routing.

What I said up above is that it calculates the fastest route between all pairs of adjacent Via Point. (I should have said faster route !) But this was in the case of v1.2 which keepts the route and the Via Points, but strips out the shaping points.

Perhaps an explanation of the difference between v1.1 and v1.2

A V1.1 route - simplified slightly to save space.
Note the list of 6 route points - one per line - 5 of them are Via Points, 1 is a Shaping Point.
<rte><name>MRA gpx V1.1</name>
<rtept lat="56.257381439208984" lon="-4.935779571533203"><name>Cairndow</name><extensions><trp:ViaPoint/></extensions></rtept>
<rtept lat="55.97156524658203" lon="-4.910202026367188"><name>Hunters Quay</name><extensions><trp:ViaPoint/></extensions></rtept>
<rtept lat="55.21196365356445" lon="-4.259476661682129"><name>Carsphairn2</name><extensions><trp:ViaPoint/></extensions></rtept>
<rtept lat="55.371745275333524" lon="-3.505964940413833"><name>Greenhillstairs</name><extensions><trp:ShapingPoint/></extensions></rtept>
<rtept lat="55.332563649863005" lon="-3.444360215216875"><name>Buccleuch Arms</name><extensions><trp:ViaPoint/></extensions></rtept>
</rte>

And here is a very small section of a v1.2 file
This contains the same first Via Point as the list above, and this is followed by hundreds of individual extension rout points - I call them 'ghost points' - they are there, but you cannot see them.
<rtept lat="56.257381439208984" lon="-4.935779571533203"><name>Cairndow</name><extensions><trp:ViaPoint/>
<gpxx:RoutePointExtension>
<gpxx:rpt lat="56.257394" lon="-4.935758"/>
<gpxx:rpt lat="56.257423" lon="-4.935815"/>
<gpxx:rpt lat="56.257423" lon="-4.935815"/>
<gpxx:rpt lat="56.256418" lon="-4.937188"/>
<gpxx:rpt lat="56.255230" lon="-4.938572"/>
<gpxx:rpt lat="56.255037" lon="-4.938761"/>
<gpxx:rpt lat="56.254806" lon="-4.938973"/>
<gpxx:rpt lat="56.254346" lon="-4.939109"/>
..
..
..
</gpxx:RoutePointExtension>

I think that people assume that a route is a squiggly line drawn on a map, whereas a track is made up of dots which are joined together with short straight lines. But they are both made up of dots joined together with short straight lines. All you have to do to make a route into a track is to take each of the gpxx:rpt tags and change them to be <trkpt tags - using exactly the same coordinates.

Here is the track showing the same section of the route shown above
The coordinates are almost identical - MRA has chosen to use only 5 decimal places instead of 6 - but the maximum difference is less than the width of a carriageway.
<trk><name>MRA V1.2 Track</name><trkseg>
<trkpt lat="56.257390" lon="-4.935760"/>
<trkpt lat="56.257420" lon="-4.935820" />
<trkpt lat="56.256420" lon="-4.937190"/>
<trkpt lat="56.255230" lon="-4.938570"/>
<trkpt lat="56.255040" lon="-4.938760"/>
<trkpt lat="56.254810" lon="-4.938970"/>
<trkpt lat="56.254350" lon="-4.939110"/>
<trkpt lat="56.253280" lon="-4.939680"/>

mad-dawg wrote: 31 Jul 2022 17:10 On UKGSER the accepted method seems to be use 1.1 or 1.2, ignore the route but convert the track to a trip within the XT. This apparently forces the XT to use the way/via points and it sticks to the planned route. Have you tried this method please?
Yes - I have prepared a brief description with diagrams / screen shots of 6 different ways of navigating with the XT. They are all in this section.
app.php/ZXT-P45

Converting a track to a trip is on P53 - just keep clciking 'Next'.
I call it a track-trip, as the result is not the same as a trip that would create in trip planner.

The track trip works really well. Compare it to navigating a track (load a track and click 'Go!' There are no spoken instructions, just a magenta line. If you deviate, the data window shows how far off course you are, and the satnav plots a dotted straight line to where the closest point of the route is. This is really quite useful and is illustrated on P51 of the above link.

But it also gives an insight into how the track-trip works. The track trip gives spoken directions, but the route does not recalculate if you deviate. Instead, like the method used when navigating a track, the satnav spots the closest point on the route to your current position, and instead of drawing a dotted straight line, it navigates you to that point. Which is really very useful.

Except there are some gotchas to watch out for.
If you deviate from the magenta line and the closest point of the route ends up behind you, and you keep ignoring the instructions to turn back - then it works out a new section of the route back to where you left the original. That then becomes the route. If you continue to plough on ahead, then it does the same again - continually laying new sections of route to get you back to the last new section. The only way of breaking this behaviour is to rejoin the original route. I don't know what happens if you turn off recalculation. I have tested this just twice. Once is documented on the P53 link above. The last time was when I observed the behaviour that I have just described, and I cannot understand why the behaviour is so different. Since this we have had lockdown, brain fuzz, covid and I have not been able to concentrate for long enough to even be bothered to work it out. I'm pulling out of that fuzzy phase now, and the weather is better. I may get out a bit more !!

The other situation is if you have an out and back route (like a circle, an oval, a figure of eight, any route which crosses over itself or two long legs which run fairly close to each other in opposite directions. The problem here is that if you deviate from the route, and you end up being closer to the return leg, you end up cutting your carefully prepared route short.

The problems only arise if you deviate though. Check where it is taking you. If you edit the route, all the XT has to work with is the start and end point - the entire routing will be lost in favour of a 'faster' route.

mad-dawg wrote: 31 Jul 2022 17:10 I dont mind having just the track to follow because the XT has recalculated and wants to send me back to the start point in Berwick when I am in Moffat.
This may be the classic error of putting the start point near to where you set off. There is a high probability that you never visited the start point, and that as you drive along the magenta line, as far as the XT is concerned, you are heading in the wrong direction. You think you are heading from Berwick towards Moffat. The XT is still trying to get you to visit the start at Berwick. Press the Skip button, see which point the XT is trying to take you to.

Always put your start point away from where you start your bike. Typically, if I am in a town, my start point may be 3 miles away - beyond the towns ring road, on the road that I want to be on. When I start the route, the satnav will work out how to get to my start, and then continue the route from there without batting an eyelid.

A clue on the XT is that the magenta line is brighter for the current section of the route (to the next Via Point). If the magenta line is duller ahead of you than it is behind you - you are heading in the wrong direction (as far as the route is concerned) - and that usually means that you have missed a Via Point.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
mad-dawg
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Re: Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by mad-dawg »

Hi John
Thank you for your reply, really helpful for me and made perfect sense.
As usual it is user error on my part, I assumed the MRA note about XT friendly (next to save as 1.2) was true and saved the route/track/poi to my XT. Loaded the track using your great instructions, loaded the route and set off, sometimes it worked fine, other times it was off on its own adventures :lol:
I will try the 1.1 track/poi system and I am sure it will be fine, if not I will go old school and just follow the track as I used to, with a line drawn on a map taped to the fuel tank.

Every day is a school day, thanks for your help.
Cheers
Tony
jfheath
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Re: Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by jfheath »

The 1.1 route / track / poi file works well too - it lets the XT calculate the route from scratch.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
jfheath
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Re: Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by jfheath »

I did a simple test of the track trip today. I plotted a route to the shops, 8 miles away. I added a shaping point on a road through a village which I had no intention of taking - instead I would take the bypass road a s a 2 mile alternative to going on a roughly parallel road through the village.

I saved the route as a track and sent it to the XT, and then converted to to two trips - one going from the start, one going from the end (for the return journey).

In both cases, I ignored the turnn into the village. The satnav immediately recalculated a new route to what appeared to be the closest point ahead. It did not try to make me turn back to the missed junction. Instead it routed me along the bypass to the point where the two roads rejoined, and continued from there.

This matches with the test that I described on page 57 of the topic link above - 3 posts back.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
mad-dawg
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Re: Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by mad-dawg »

Hi John
Sounds like a plan!
In your first post you mention disabling off route recalculation, I used to have mine set to prompted but that is almost as annoying as letting the XT auto recalculate, each time the prompt comes up it hides the view and can be a bit stubborn to get rid of it pressing the no button. I have now resorted to recalculation off and if I need to recalculate I will stop and re-load the route.
Thanks again
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Re: Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by jfheath »

Yes - unfortunately. I don't like it, but at present it is the best solution that I can come up with. Otherwise, if I go off route it will nag every minute to turn round and take a 30 mile detour to the next route point which I know is just a few miles ahead.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
fatfeet
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Re: Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by fatfeet »

gpx v1.1 only sends the Via Points and Shaping Points. The XT has to calculate the route between the plotted route points.
I had a play yesterday using the iPad and MRA and sending the route via drive app on iPad. I have never done this before as normally just use BC and a cable.

I wonder if you or anyone else can help me here.

I must admit I do find MRA far easier to plan routes, anyway my point, I plotted a route around where I live, ( not that, that matters) I saved it as gpx 1.1 route track POI then emailed through normal channels, I opened email on the iPad, click the attachment and it uploaded to drive app, turned on and imported to XT. all good, however when I opened the route although it was the same as I'd plotted on the MRA it only had the start and end points, none of the other 4 via/shaping points were present. I purposely added these to see how it worked. I am obviously doing something wrong.

any advice gratefully received, I am a skin flint and do not subscribe to MRA but I am considering it, I just want to iron out a few points.
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Re: Routes Prepared in MyRouteApp - Used with XT

Post by jfheath »

That behaviour is different from the tests that I have carried out - the last time I checked (in June) v1.1 created gpx files that contained all of the route points, but not route point extension date (ghost points) that ensured that the exact roads that were followed produced by MRA were sent to the XT. A brief description of each of the formats is here (last tested on 1st June this year)

app.php/ZXT-P76

If you want to send me your gpx file - or better still, make your MRA route public and send me the link - I'll see if I get the same results as you.

One thought though - are you sure that you have used routing points on MRA correctly ?
Tear drop icon = Shaping Point
Hand icon = Via Point.

Also rename the route in MRA and transfer it again - so that when it transfers it cannot be confused with a route that you have sent to the XT previously.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.

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