Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

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chrismox
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Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by chrismox »

I have just returned from a week travelling around France. Every evening, I'd plan a course for the next day's travels using the Garmin Explore app on my iPad. I would then convert the course to a route and sync it to my Zumo XT.

Of the 8 routes I created, 6 worked as expected and 2 didn't. The ones that worked fine would allow me to interrupt the navigation (for example when heading off-route for fuel) and then re-select the route for navigation and correctly join it at the closest entry point.

The 2 that misbehaved would only work if I went to the start point of the route and then followed it perfectly. They would fail if the route had to be recalculated (eg a detour) or if I interrupted the navigation and then tried once again to navigate to the nearest point. By failing, I mean that the Zumo would try to send me to a point much further down-route rather than the nearest. This would sometimes be shown on the preview map as a straight line rather than along roads.

I checked the courses carefully for mistakes, tried editing them and re-exporting them as routes etc. but to no avail. The only way of being able to rejoin my route mid-way was by deleting the points on the route that I'd already passed (using the app and syncing) and therefore making the next point the start.

I noticed a warning in the Garmin Explore app about limiting my courses to 50 points, so this was never exceeded.

Any ideas where I might be going wrong?

Thanks in advance.
Stu
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Re: Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by Stu »

Hi and welcome to the forum

Did you use Myroute App?
chrismox
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Re: Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by chrismox »

Thank you, Stu.

No, I was using Garmin Explore.
chrismox
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Re: Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by chrismox »

It seems that the Zumo XT can have up to 200 waypoints per route, so the limit of 50 that I was sticking to should be fine.

https://support.garmin.com/en-GB/?faq=O ... s61OhANsf5
Stu
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Re: Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by Stu »

chrismox wrote: 03 Jul 2022 19:09 Thank you, Stu.

No, I was using Garmin Explore.
Ooops I missed that bit!

I have never used garmin explore
jfheath
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Re: Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by jfheath »

A couple of us are still investigtaing this.

At the moment it seems that Closest Entry Point is able to produce some weird results and this can be affected by:

Whether or not you have a Via Point other than (start and finish) in a route. No - I didn't believe it either, but @FrankB and I had many exchanges and his discovery certainly seems to be the case. I created a route with all shaping points. Closest Entry Point would not calculate, or it selected a very weird place to join. Change one of the points to be announcing (ie be a via point), and it worked ok.

If any single point is even slightly misplaced - this certainly affects the behaviour of CEP.

If the bike is facing the wrong way (or the stanav thinks it is), and U turns are not allowed. CEP can produces weird results. Think about it. You are forcing the bike to head off in the wrong direction, and you are not allowing it to turn round.

It didn't seem to make any difference whether or not a point was first created as a Waypoint.

With routes created in Explore, the Waypoints plotted in Explore do not become part of the route itself. They are just points marked on a map and shown on a map. The Zumo may insert new route points (via or shaping points) into the line that you create in Explore, and ti may then calculate a route that follows the roads that you plotted in Explore. But you have to be very careful of the placement of the points on the Explore Map - where the straight line route changes direction.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
chrismox
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Re: Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by chrismox »

Well, thanks a lot for the comprehensive reply.

Having used the Garmin Explore app rather than Basecamp to create a route (or in this case, a course which is then exported as a route), It's not simple to see whether any of the points are via or shaping points, so I may never be any the wiser.

I suppose there is a possibility that the map used in the IOS version of Explore has slightly different road placement from time to time and that the Zumo doesn't like the positioning of the points.

You mention the plotting of routes as straight lines in Explore (as is the case on the Explore website). The course that the IOS Explore app creates does follow roads, but obviously these aren't necessarily the roads that the Zumo will navigate once the course has become a route and therefore just a collection of points.

It's a pity that it's not a flawless system. The workflow of simply working out a course on the iPad, saving it as a route and then having it automatically sync to the Zumo from the Drive app on my phone is excellent, particularly when I'm travelling and therefore not carrying around computers and cables galore.

Thanks again, I'll report again if I work out anything else.
jfheath
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Re: Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by jfheath »

Ah yes. Sorry, I forgot about the new developments in the Explore App on ios and android that allows it to follow roads. The same feature didn't exist on the web based version of Explore the last time that I tried it.

So ignore my straight line comments and the addition of route points. It wasn't wrong, but it is not relevant for courses.

When you send a Course to the XT, the entire path that you plotted gets sent exactly as it appears on the Explore map. It appears in the trip planner app and you can load it and navigate it just like a Trip. But there are no Via Points, Shaping Points or Waypoints to fix the route in place. It doesn't need them, the course will never get recalculated.

If you deviate, then the XT will get you back onto the magenta line - either by taking you back to the point where you left it, or back to the point where it last gave an instruction, or by navigating you to the closest point ahead. I've tested it only twice and have seen all three behaviours. You also have to be wary of circular, or long thin 'oval' routes. If you deviate from the course, you could end up closer to the return leg than you are to the section that you have left - in which case it will navigate you back home. The same sort if thing may apply with fig 8 routes

Any waypoints that you created in Explore will show up on the map, but when I tested, they did not inform you of their presence nor give any indication of distance or ETA. But it was a very new feature when I tested it.

The courses behaved very much like the 'Trip-Track' that can be created when you transfer a track to the XT and ask the XT to convert it to a trip.

I must go back and take another look at the course feature. When I tried it, it was too happy to place the course along any right of way plotted on the map. Great for walkers, but there were no switches to stop it from doing this for motorcyclists. It was clearly newly developed and may have changed.

Let us know how you get on with this please.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
chrismox
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Location: East Sussex, UK
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Re: Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by chrismox »

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I wanted to have a look at my device to check a few things.

As you say, the web version of Explore only offers the opportunity to create a route (or add a waypoint). The IOS version of Explore only allows courses to be created (and then converted, see below).

I have checked on my device and I cannot find any courses in the trip planner app or anywhere else. I was under the impression that courses had to be converted to either tracks or routes and could then be seen in the Explore library on the XT (WHERE TO? -> EXPLORE). If I've got this wrong, any chance you can help me with accessing the courses on my Zumo XT?

Thanks again.
jfheath
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Re: Zumo XT not calculating nearest entry point on route

Post by jfheath »

Explore on the website only really creates one thing. A track or a route - they both behave the same on creation. Once created you can change it into the other. It makes very little difference - it is still straight lines. How the XT deals with it will be different depending on whether it is a track or a route.

Explore on the App now only creates a course - but it has two modes.

In one mode, you tap on the screen and it places a green circle. The start. Then you press somewhere else and it places a purple dot, and joins it to the circle. Then another press on the map. Another purple dot joined to the last one. If you press on the last dot a second time, it becomes a red dot - the end.

On the screen is a magnet symbol. If you tap that, the magnet symbol goes grey with a line through it. Now when you place dots, they are joined to the previous dot with a straight line.

You can change modes magnet/no magnet part way through creating a course - so some of your course will be made with straight lines, some will follow roads (or tracks or footpaths).

Courses do not get synchronised with the XT. Instead you can save them as either a track or as a route.
Saved as a track, the course is reproduced exactly as on the Explore map - following the roads.
Saved as a route, the course appears on the Explore maps as a series of straight lines which connect the points that were used to create it. However, on receipt by the XT, this is converted into a route that follows roads. There are no editable intermediate points.

Tracks appear in the normal Tracks menu as well as in Where To? -> Explore ->Tracks
Routes appear only in Where To ? -> Explore -> Routes

I suspect that these routes will behave like a Trip that has been converted from a track.

This behaviour surprised me - I felt that I had seen 'Courses' on the XT screen. I have no screen shots - so I assume that I was mistaken.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.

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