Zumo 590 + 595 & Basecamp - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by rbentnail »

Stu wrote: 28 May 2020 22:27 When you do this you should get a point in the route to select which one do you go for? the start point or the destination?
When I do this, despite having about 17 shaping points, I am given a choice of two points- the start and the end. That's it. If I pick the start point I get a dropdown menu with a wrench and an up/down arrow icon. EXACTLY the same thing happens if I pick the destination. There's a green flag next to the start point and a checkered flag next to the destination.

So I pick neither. If I press MAP it shows a preview. If I pick GO! it it then gives me a list of points. I pick the next one I have not reached yet, in this case the start point. It then makes a route different from the preview. As far as I can tell I am NOT picking the destination to route to.
Last edited by rbentnail on 29 May 2020 13:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by rbentnail »

Iris wrote: 28 May 2020 23:19 I do all of my route planning and editing on BaseCamp, not the unit.

Rbentnail, I always check to make sure my gps says ready to navigate before I activate the route. I have learned to wait till the gps has located satellites.
I noticed that if I don’t wait, it will ignore my route a re-calculate even if I have recalculation disabled.

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Good point, I found that out too. My power cradle is wired directly to the battery so in this case the gps had been on without power interrupted for about 4 hrs.
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by Stu »

rbentnail wrote: 29 May 2020 12:47
Stu wrote: 28 May 2020 22:27 When you do this you should get a point in the route to select which one do you go for? the start point or the destination?
When I do this, despite having about 17 shaping points, I am given a choice of two points- the start and the end. That's it. If I pick the start point I get a dropdown menu with a wrench and an up/down arrow icon. EXACTLY the same thing happens if I pick the destination. There's a green flag next to the start point and a checkered flag next to the destination.

So I pick neither. If I press MAP it shows a preview. If I pick GO! it it then gives me a list of points. I pick the next one I have not reached yet, in this case the start point. It then makes a route different from the preview. As far as I can tell I am NOT picking the destination to route to.
You have to pick the start point otherwise you cancel the rest out but I suspect you know this already

Seems odd I'm guessing you have done a factory reset
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by jfheath »

I'll see if I can reproduce this. Mine is a 590 at the moment. I'll just see what that does on the 590 before I add 5 to it. I'll be back.

In the meantime - in Basecamp, can you take a look at the device transfer options, let us know what they are.
On the PC it is in Edit / Options / Device Transfer.
There are 3 (or 4) check boxes which may be blank or contain a tick. How are they set on yours?
And - I assume your default mode of transport / activity profile is set as motorcycle in Basecamp. What is the route option set to (faster, shorter, curvy)?

Also - what version of map do you have on the Zumo. And on the computer.
What version of software is loaded onto the Zumo.

John
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by rbentnail »

jfheath wrote: 29 May 2020 16:45 I'll see if I can reproduce this. Mine is a 590 at the moment. I'll just see what that does on the 590 before I add 5 to it. I'll be back.

In the meantime - in Basecamp, can you take a look at the device transfer options, let us know what they are.
On the PC it is in Edit / Options / Device Transfer.
There are 3 (or 4) check boxes which may be blank or contain a tick. How are they set on yours?
Only the middle box "Always match route to the map on my device when transferring." is ticked.

And - I assume your default mode of transport / activity profile is set as motorcycle in Basecamp. What is the route option set to (faster, shorter, curvy)? No. The device is completely useless to me in the Motorcycling activity. Both the device and Base Camp are set to the Driving activity. Both Base Camp and the device are set to Faster Time.

You can see in this thread viewtopic.php?f=12&t=93 when I asked roughly the same questions. I've been trying for 2 yrs to get this damn thing to simply follow a premade route. The gist of that thread (with no real results, obviously) is that I am doing something wrong.


Also - what version of map do you have on the Zumo. And on the computer. What version of software is loaded onto the Zumo.
Base Camp 4.7.1 with Navigator North America NT 2021.1
On the device is Software Version 4.60 and Map: Full Coverage of North America 2021.10


John
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by jfheath »

Right, I have somehow managed to get myself a 595.

I cannot reproduce your results. I have used the same Skipton to Fort WIlliam route that I showed on the couple of maps above. I did the same test on the 590 before I redid the conversion to a 595. Both gave the same results.

First, I tried it with the Via Point and Shaping points in place. It was taking an age to import the map which is not correct - it should import it in a few seconds, and this was taking a couple of minutes. It turned out that I had prepared the route a while ago, and since then I had installed the latest UK maps 2020.30. I hadn't recalculated the route in Basecamp. Also, I noted that I had some OSM maps on my system, and these were turned on. I have noted before that these maps cause problems with the Garmin maps if both are ticked at the same time. They can both be loaded, but not active. So I unticked the OSM maps.

Then I tried the route like yours, with all route points set as shaping points. There was no change in the route when loaded or after pressing GO.

Then I tried stripping the shaping points in both versions (ie with a few Via Points intact, and without. This can be useful for seeing if a route recalculates. Without the shaping points in place, it will be very obvious if there is a recalculation. But neither versions of my route recalculated on loading or when Go was pressed or when Start was pressed. For routes with Via Points included, I tried selecting a point further into the route as the starts. That DID calculate a route - but only up to the selected point after which the route was the same as before. Even with the shaping points stripped out.

Pressing SKip (its in the Change Route link) for any route point, and the route is recalculated and the sahpe is lost. It still goes through the Via Points though (if there are any).

(A word about stripping out the shaping points. - In Basecamp you can shape a route with the shaping points, and then remove them - leaving the shape of the route intact. When this gets transferred and imported to the Zumo, the Zumo retains the same shape. But as soon as it recalculates for whatever reason, it only has the Via Points as guides, so the original shaped route is lost. It is very obvious when looking at the map whether a recalculation ahs taken place, using this trick.


rbentnail wrote: 29 May 2020 21:40 Only the middle box "Always match route to the map on my device when transferring." is ticked.
I always have all of those checkboxes unticked on Device Transfer Options in Basecamp. But I tried with always match maps ticked, and it made no difference. I have noticed on a previous occasion that it did make a difference. It forced a recalc on import of the route. I don't have any notes and I don't remember the details.
rbentnail wrote: 29 May 2020 21:40 The device is completely useless to me in the Motorcycling activity. Both the device and Base Camp are set to the Driving activity. Both Base Camp and the device are set to Faster Time.
Its the settings in the Basecamp route that are used - (or just the vehicle and the routing properties.) Usually changing the vehicle type will force a recalculation, but it switches the unit to car as soon as you load the route. Beware of using custom profiles though. The Zumo doesn't know what a custom profile is, so when the Zumo receives it, it makes a decision about which profile to use, And it uses Bike. Which WILL force a recalculation of the route !!

I see no difference in the ZUmo being told that it is a car or a bike. If you set up the routing preferences and navigation preferences to be exactly the same, as far as I can see, they behave the same. Its just a way of storing 2 sets of settings. When the Zumo loads a route for the bike, it switches to bike mode, and apart from faster/shorter, it uses the settings (avoidances, tolls, etc) that are stored in the bikes profile.

The unit also switches mode according to the cradle it is in. But load a bike route into the Zumo when it is in the car cradle, and the cradle then becomes set as a bike cradle. There were so many ways of messing things up, I set up car and bike to be identical. Then I don't care.
rbentnail wrote: 29 May 2020 21:40 You can see in this thread viewtopic.php?f=12&t=93 when I asked roughly the same questions. I've been trying for 2 yrs to get this damn thing to simply follow a premade route. The gist of that thread (with no real results, obviously) is that I am doing something wrong.[/color]
I'll take a good look through that. Thanks.
rbentnail wrote: 29 May 2020 21:40 Base Camp 4.7.1 with Navigator North America NT 2021.1
On the device is Software Version 4.60 and Map: Full Coverage of North America 2021.10
Aha. Now - is that a typo or is it really version 2021.1 on Basecamp and version 2021.10 in the Zumo ??

Now you and I know that they are both the same decimal number. But it seems that the Zumo doesn't. Years back there was a similar situation with the numbering of the Zumo map and the Basecamp map. One had a nought on the end, the other didn't. The Zumo saw this as meaning that the maps were not identical, so every single route on import would get recalculated by the Zumo. The difference is that this can take a few minutes per route, as opposed to a few seconds. It remained like this until they brought out the next update.

So back to a comment I made further up - how long does it take to import a route ? It should be just a couple of seconds during which time the display will indicate calculating. If it takes longer than that for a route transferred from Basecamp, then that is where we need to look further.

If you're happy to stick with this to get it sorted and answer a load of questions, I'm happy to keep working at it. We might have to switch to email at some point.

It's late now, I'll read through your previous topic on the same subject tomorrow.

John
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by jfheath »

Ok - I have an answer for you.

I read through the posts on the link you posted two years ago, and I downloaded the route you mentioned (Linville to Yellow Mountain).
It has 5 Via points, one Shaping Point and a start and end point. No Waypoints. The single shaping point is as Thistledown Lane.

It is not necessarily the complete answer that I have found, and I do need to check some things out with you as I am using OSM maps (open source) for North Carolina, not Garmin maps. I had to download these as I only have the UK maps on my unit. But your route transferred precisely from your GPX file to my 595, and indeed it is showing a few anomalies - which revealed some new information for me, and it may well explain why your Zumo seems to be behaving in a peculiar manner. I haven't come across this particular 'feature' before, but if it is what I think it is, you would certainly believe that it is recalculating your routes all of the time.

So rather than get into an on-line discussion about something that I am not entirely clear about, if you PM me an email address, I'll send you screen shots and explanations of what I think is happening. And if you can agree, contradict or raise some other stuff, maybe we will arrive at the answer to your woes.

Whatever - these anomalies have come from your Basecamp route, and have nothing to do with the Zumo. Or you. This issue is to do with the mapping or the settings or a combination of both. Now I think I know what to look for, it will be much easier to sort it out.

I started to post the explanation on here, but after I had posted my 5th image, it refused it, and I need to explain this with images. I must have run out of permitted space. So I am in the process of putting together a pdf document that I can email to you.

Pm me an email address, and we can see where this goes, and if you have a route that does something similar, post or send me that and I'll see if it is the same problem.

John
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by rbentnail »

jfheath wrote: 29 May 2020 23:04 Right, I have somehow managed to get myself a 595.
rbentnail wrote: 29 May 2020 21:40 Base Camp 4.7.1 with Navigator North America NT 2021.1
On the device is Software Version 4.60 and Map: Full Coverage of North America 2021.10
Aha. Now - is that a typo or is it really version 2021.1 on Basecamp and version 2021.10 in the Zumo ??

Now you and I know that they are both the same decimal number. But it seems that the Zumo doesn't. Years back there was a similar situation with the numbering of the Zumo map and the Basecamp map. One had a nought on the end, the other didn't. The Zumo saw this as meaning that the maps were not identical, so every single route on import would get recalculated by the Zumo. The difference is that this can take a few minutes per route, as opposed to a few seconds. It remained like this until they brought out the next update.
No, that is not a typo. That is exactly what is shown. xx.1 in Base amp and xx.10 on the zumo via Base Camp. I could not figure out how to look at the device directly and see the software and map versions.


So back to a comment I made further up - how long does it take to import a route ? It should be just a couple of seconds during which time the display will indicate calculating. If it takes longer than that for a route transferred from Basecamp, then that is where we need to look further.
I'm confused about what you are asking me. To IMPORT a route contained on an SD card in the device takes 2 or 3 seconds. Sometime as much as 5 or 6 for really long routes but it has always done this quickly.

I do not use the TRANSFER command in Base Camp. I drag and drop the route to MEMORY CARD/USER MEMORY, i.e., what I believe is the SD card, yes? I have never had any difficulty with importing this way.


If you're happy to stick with this to get it sorted and answer a load of questions, I'm happy to keep working at it. We might have to switch to email at some point.

It's late now, I'll read through your previous topic on the same subject tomorrow.

John
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by Iris »

BaseCamp Map 2021.1 vs
GPS Map 2021.10

Is it really an issue because I just checked mine. The odd thing is
When I look at the gps unit by going to settings/map & vehicle/myMaps,
It says 2021.10.
However, when I plug the unit into the computer and look in BaseCamp in the map Pulldown-Menu, I see two 2021.1 running at the same time. One is the computer, the other is the gps unit.

Image


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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by jfheath »

There was one 3 month period when the map in the Zumo reported one number and the same map in Basecamp reported another number. One had the zero, the other didn't. So it was something like 2016.3 and 2016.30 (although I cannot remember the exact year and number).

For the 3 months before the new map came out, every single route that was transferred from Basecamp caused the Zumo to recalculate the route. And for long routes, this would take a good couple of minutes, as opposed to the few seconds that it normally takes.

But [mention]rbentnail[/mention] reports that his routes are taking just a few seconds, so it appears that this is no longer an issue. I can imagine a conversation with a programmer discussing the difference between comparing text and comparing numbers.

In this case, I spotted the different numbers, remembered the problem from a few years ago, and wondered if that had any bearing on rbentnail's issues. It doesn't.

Since then I've been looking at rbentnail's issue and routes and have found two very definite possibilities for his 595 misery. Just awaiting a reply before going any further.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC