Zumo 590 + 595 & Basecamp - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

For everything Garmin Zumo 590/595 related
jfheath
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by jfheath »

rbentnail wrote: 28 May 2020 14:53 It's not just you. My 595 doesn't behave in any of the ways jfheath thinks it should. It's becoming more and more a decorative paperweight.
The 595 is a different beast in some respects. But it behaves as I expect it to. Give me an example and I am more than happy to explain if you would like.

Unless you are in desperate need of a paperweight !
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Zumo 590, 595 & Basecamp pdf link
Zumo XT & BC Link


Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
jfheath
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by jfheath »

Iris wrote: 27 May 2020 23:03
2nd EDIT:
I did not call Garmin. I did some additional investigating. I double clicked the route to see the list of all my shaping points.
I think the issue might be that I initially started with a previous route I had created. That route had shaping points that forced me to take I-76. I no longer wanted to take I-76 so I simply moved my shaping points to another road. It was still labeled I-76, but now it was actually on I-78.
I wonder if I should have “inserted a new” shaping point on the new road rather than “move” my original shaping point.
I’ll have to see if that fixes it, although I have no plans in driving all the way to PA in the near future.

If I am right about my findings, I think it’s stupid that I can not just take an existing route and reshape it by moving shaping points around.
Are you using Basecamp to make this edit, and then transferring it, or are you editing it on the Zumo 590 ?
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Zumo 590, 595 & Basecamp pdf link
Zumo XT & BC Link


Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
sussamb
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by sussamb »

Moving a point should work, you can always check by running the route, or part of it, in simulation mode.
rbentnail
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by rbentnail »

jfheath wrote: 28 May 2020 19:39
rbentnail wrote: 28 May 2020 14:53 It's not just you. My 595 doesn't behave in any of the ways jfheath thinks it should. It's becoming more and more a decorative paperweight.
The 595 is a different beast in some respects. But it behaves as I expect it to. Give me an example and I am more than happy to explain if you would like.

Unless you are in desperate need of a paperweight !
Ok, here goes: I make a route in Base Camp. The starting point is about 200 yds down the road from where I'll actually be parked. There's the end point at the end. Every single point in between is a shaping point. There are no via points. I have checked this twice- ALL non-announcing shaping points. I zoom in and move points as necessary to put them on the road exactly where I want them. After naming, changing color, etc. I drag and drop the route to my SD card and import it to my 595.

When I preview the route on the device by Apps/Trip Planner/route name/Map, it is exactly what I see in Base Camp. And I mean exactly. I zoom way, way in to make sure. It's perfect! I'm feeling pretty good about this.

So, I meet my buddies and off we go. We park and eat. I pull up the route and press GO! then OK then start.. The route changes, looking nothing like it was. I STOP the route. I preview the route by pressing MAP and again, it looks EXACTLY like I made it in Base Camp. So I press GO then start. The route changes again to something I do not want.

W. T. F.
Russ B. Zumo 595 & XT
2007 & 2013 USA Yamaha FJR1300A
Stu
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by Stu »

rbentnail wrote: 28 May 2020 22:23
jfheath wrote: 28 May 2020 19:39
rbentnail wrote: 28 May 2020 14:53 It's not just you. My 595 doesn't behave in any of the ways jfheath thinks it should. It's becoming more and more a decorative paperweight.
The 595 is a different beast in some respects. But it behaves as I expect it to. Give me an example and I am more than happy to explain if you would like.

Unless you are in desperate need of a paperweight !
Ok, here goes: I make a route in Base Camp. The starting point is about 200 yds down the road from where I'll actually be parked. There's the end point at the end. Every single point in between is a shaping point. There are no via points. I have checked this twice- ALL non-announcing shaping points. I zoom in and move points as necessary to put them on the road exactly where I want them. After naming, changing color, etc. I drag and drop the route to my SD card and import it to my 595.

When I preview the route on the device by Apps/Trip Planner/route name/Map, it is exactly what I see in Base Camp. And I mean exactly. I zoom way, way in to make sure. It's perfect! I'm feeling pretty good about this.

So, I meet my buddies and off we go. We park and eat. I pull up the route and press GO! then OK then start.. The route changes, looking nothing like it was. I STOP the route. I preview the route by pressing MAP and again, it looks EXACTLY like I made it in Base Camp. So I press GO then start. The route changes again to something I do not want.

W. T. F.
When you do this you should get a point in the route to select which one do you go for? the start point or the destination?
Iris
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Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by Iris »

I do all of my route planning and editing on BaseCamp, not the unit.

Rbentnail, I always check to make sure my gps says ready to navigate before I activate the route. I have learned to wait till the gps has located satellites.
I noticed that if I don’t wait, it will ignore my route a re-calculate even if I have recalculation disabled.

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jfheath
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by jfheath »

Ok. 595, route containing all shaping points. Transfers exactly and then changes.

A few possibilities

Possibility 1 - this scenario is a common user error.

You chose the end point as the place you want to go to next when you pressed Go.

When you start the route, it asks you to select the point you want to go to next, and it lists only the start, finish and any Via Points. In your case there are no via points, so it displays just the start and finish. This is actually asking which Via point is the one you want to start navigating from (at some point, Garmin decided to call Via Points 'destinations''). It is an opportunity to start a route from a mid point. It will then navigate you to that chosen point, using Fastest/shortest according to how your Navigation is set .
It then continues to navigate the route exactly as planned from that point.

In your case, if you select the start point ( which may be off the top of the screen), the satnav will take you to the start and continue your route precisely as it was planned in Basecamp.

If you select the final destination, it will ignore your planned route and all of the shaping point and just get you to the point you selected as the place you wanted to start from.

If you have start, finish and 3 via points in the route, and loads of shaping points, when you start the route there will be 5 suggestions for where you want to start the route. "Select Next Destination" == "which via point do you want to start from". Choose the middle one (say), you will get taken to that point using fastest / shortest route and all shaping points will be ignored. As soon as it gets there it starts to navigate each shaping point and via point in turn.

Possibility 2.

There are certain circumstances in the 590, 595 and XT when the entire route will recalculate. I've known this for a while, but only recently worked out some of the situations when it happens. One of these situations is when you press Skip. A new route is worked out to join together all of the shaping and via points. Often it will work out the same route as Basecamp did - you put the shaping points in to force it along certain roads, and it still honours all of these. But the actual route between the points may differ if it gets the chance to recalculate.

I haven't yet pinned down the other circumstances, but the route taken may be affected by the time of day, the day of the week and your own riding history. If you have TrafficTrends turned on on a 590, or traffic info from a smartphone on a 595, if it gets chance to recalculate it will take this other information into account. At least that is my suspicion so far. I have seen it avoid a main road around 5 in the evening on both a 590 and 595 at the same time. It thought the main road was busy at that time ( the info is built into the maps as historic data ). It took a while to work out when it did it as I couldn't get it to repeat the same result. But we had both pressed skip at some point on the route, so i reckon the recalculation happened then. From this incident it seemed that recalc happens due to traffic even if recalc is turned off. I turn TrafficTrends off on the 590. I haven't found a similar option on the 595 as yet.

The route certainly recalculates when you go off route, but I think it is only up to the next shaping point. I might be wrong about that, i need to check.

Possibility 3
Another suggestion is that no matter what your routing preferences are in the satnav (faster/ shorter / curvy / off road) for your vehicle, the route from basecamp transmits the routing preference that was set for the route to the zumo. And while the route is active, it uses that preference and not the one that was set in the Zumo before the route was loaded. So for example, you set your zumo to be fastest time. But the setting in basecamp was shorter distance. When the route is loaded into the zumo and run, it switches to shorter distance. So IF the route recalculates, it does so using shorter distance, and not fastest time. I always have basecamp and Zumo set to fastest time. It is more predictable, and stops me making that error.

Possibility 4.

Something i only spotted a few weeks ago. I have a ticket raised with Garmin about it, and had to send more info yesterday.
On the Zumos you can change a via point into a shaping point by touching the flag in the edit route list.
Perfectly ok in the 590. If you do it on the XT or on the 595, it often puts the shaping point in a different place from the original Via point.

5 the route will always recalculate if the map on the zumo is not identical to the map on basecamp.
Last edited by jfheath on 29 May 2020 06:38, edited 2 times in total.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Zumo 590, 595 & Basecamp pdf link
Zumo XT & BC Link


Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
sussamb
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by sussamb »

4. happens on the Drive series also. Strangely it only happens one way, that is if you change a shaping point to a via point it doesn't move. I reported this to Garmin a while back, as I don't do it often it's no big deal but would be if you are constantly doing it.

As for rbentnail's problem my bet is also that he's selecting the end and not the start point.
jfheath
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by jfheath »

For Possibility 1 above, Here is an example of what happens when you select the next destination when starting a route.

(Click the map to get an enlarged view)
Next Destination 2.jpg
Next Destination 2.jpg (165.18 KiB) Viewed 3489 times
The route has 3 Via Points - the orange flags. One is close to the start at Skipton - placed there to stop this error being made.
The other 2, working north west are at Ravenglass and at Girvan. The end point is at Fort William.
The route starts at the southern end and heads north.
Between the flags are some shaping points shown on this map as green or blue circles.
The blue dotted route is the route that was planned in Basecamp and which is loaded into the Zumo perfectly.

When you load the map and press Go - it asks you to 'Select Next Destination'.
It offers my start point Ilkley, Skipton, Ravenglass, Girvan, Fort WIlliam

If I select Girvan, the red line on the map is what happens to the route. The satnav makes its own way to Girvan and ignores every single shaping point and Via Point in order to get there. From Girvan onwards, the route is navigated properly.
It should really have asked 'At which point do you want to begin to follow your route'.

If you select the end point of the route in response to 'Select Next Destination' , then this is what happens.

Next Destination 4.jpg
Next Destination 4.jpg (165.16 KiB) Viewed 3489 times
My entire route from Basecamp is completely ignored, and instead I get a new one that is calculated by Zumo. The last few miles to Fort William coincide - but only because there isn't another way.

For my routes I usually place the start to be where I consider my route to start, not my actual starting point. I believe rbentnail did the same. That way the satnav will get me to that point, and I don't care which route it takes, and then starts to navigate my route from there.


The use of this Ordnance Survey Open Data map is perfectly legal - providing that I add the following statement:

Contains Ordnance Survey data © Crown copyright and database right 2010
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Zumo 590, 595 & Basecamp pdf link
Zumo XT & BC Link


Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
sussamb
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Re: Zumo 590 - What the Manuals Do not Tell.

Post by sussamb »

Great explanation :D