Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

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Peobody
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Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by Peobody »

I am on an anniversary weekend ride with my wife this weekend. I planned a route to a mountain destination using Basecamp. A third of the way into the ride I decided that I didn't like the route. The roads were boring. I knew I could get fifty miles north and be at a higher elevation on more interesting roads so I stopped route and headed north. Once I felt I was far enough north I selected my route in Trip Planner, choosing the end point as the starting point. The resulting route was absurd due to its "faster" road proclivity so I headed in the direction I needed to go on a secondary road assuming it would recalculate at some point. The distance to the end point was about 80 miles. The RUT prompts were still going 20 miles in so I stopped the route and created a new one on the XT using the search function and curvy roads. I share this only because I was surprised by the RUT behaviour in this case.
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Re: Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by jfheath »

Curious, but probably explainable.


In order to trigger guaranteed RUT behaviour, I always started with a Basecamp 'imported' route, and then forced the XT to recalculate the entire route. This I did by putting in an unnecessary shaping point about a mile after the start. Once I had passed the start point I skipped the unnecessary shaping point so that the entire route was recalculated. The recalculation of an imported route was always the thing that provided the circumstances that I used. Frank has come across other circumstances that I have yet to duplicate.

Subsequently, any serious deviation from the XT calculated route resulted in RUT behaviour.


See if this makes sense...

In your situation, you have loaded an imported route and the XT has been asked to calculate a route to the end. So it seems that it might be the same situation: Imported flag set, route recalculated and then deviation from its route.

This seems to cause the XT to calculate a route like the Track-Trip routes. They also display RUT behaviour. Without route points, all they can do is head for the closest point of the route from which you have deviated. Sometimes this is good, but once it asks you to turn back and you ignore, that is when RUT starts, as the closest point is always behind you.

I would expect that if you had asked the Zumo to calculate its own route to the same end point (without first loading the imported route) it would have behaved perfectly.
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Re: Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by rbentnail »

Peobody wrote: 15 Jun 2024 02:21 I am on an anniversary weekend ride with my wife this weekend. I planned a route to a mountain destination using Basecamp. A third of the way into the ride I decided that I didn't like the route. The roads were boring. I knew I could get fifty miles north and be at a higher elevation on more interesting roads so I stopped route and headed north. Once I felt I was far enough north I selected my route in Trip Planner, choosing the end point as the starting point. The resulting route was absurd due to its "faster" road proclivity so I headed in the direction I needed to go on a secondary road assuming it would recalculate at some point. The distance to the end point was about 80 miles. The RUT prompts were still going 20 miles in so I stopped the route and created a new one on the XT using the search function and curvy roads. I share this only because I was surprised by the RUT behaviour in this case.
Welcome to my world! This happens to me all the time since I am often leaving my route. I first found it when I was about 80 miles from home on the hwy my house is on and I pressed Go Home. The XT routed me 18 miles and 30 minutes out just to get to a faster road. And it would not take no for an answer. When I passed the turn-off, instead of recalculating, it went into the RUT mode. Please note how my experiences would not meet John's expectations, "I would expect that if you had asked the Zumo to calculate its own route to the same end point (without first loading the imported route) it would have behaved perfectly."
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Re: Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by Peobody »

rbentnail wrote: 15 Jun 2024 11:46 lease note how my experiences would not meet John's expectations, "I would expect that if you had asked the Zumo to calculate its own route to the same end point (without first loading the imported route) it would have behaved perfectly."
That is what I am thinking too. By choosing the end point as the entry point I think the XT would have calculated its own route to that "entry point".
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Re: Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by Peobody »

Something I forgot to mention in my first post was that the RUT notices often prompted me to reverse direction and travel along an unpaved lane that ran parallel to the paved road I was on. The unpaved avoidance is enabled.
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Re: Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by jfheath »

Peobody wrote: 15 Jun 2024 12:21
rbentnail wrote: 15 Jun 2024 11:46 lease note how my experiences would not meet John's expectations, "I would expect that if you had asked the Zumo to calculate its own route to the same end point (without first loading the imported route) it would have behaved perfectly."
That is what I am thinking too. By choosing the end point as the entry point I think the XT would have calculated its own route to that "entry point".
Yes but that was the possible issue to which I was referring. What I am thinking is that the XT had calculated it from an active route. An imported route with the mImport byte set. If so, those are the circumstances under which RUT is triggered when you don't follow its instructions.

But if you built the route on the Zumo using the same two points and selected the end as the next destination, it would not display RUT behaviour.

I suspect if you select Where To and then select that end Waypoint ( if it was a waypoint) , it would work perfectly too.

The side road is something I observed. U turns disabled, it will find any other means to turn you round - including go up a farm track and then turn round , including use a layby, use a bit of old road that is now private property and us a dead end.

Incidentally, going 360 degrees around a roundabout is considered a U turn. It seems that if you head back in the other direction on the same road - that is a u turn. So utilising a side road that it would not normally navigate, is perfectly ok !
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Re: Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by Peobody »

jfheath wrote: 16 Jun 2024 07:09 The side road is something I observed. U turns disabled, it will find any other means to turn you round - including go up a farm track and then turn round , including use a layby, use a bit of old road that is now private property and us a dead end.
In my case, u-turns were enabled. It was odd how in some places it would prompt for a u-turn but in others it would prompt to the parallel unpaved road heading the other way.
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Re: Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by rbentnail »

Peobody wrote: 15 Jun 2024 12:21 That is what I am thinking too. By choosing the end point as the entry point I think the XT would have calculated its own route to that "entry point".
This is why, regardless of whatever else I've done, with the XT I also transfer a waypoint for my destination. Picking a route destination makes it act stupid, picking a distant Saved Place does not.
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Re: Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by jfheath »

rbentnail wrote: 16 Jun 2024 12:30
Peobody wrote: 15 Jun 2024 12:21 That is what I am thinking too. By choosing the end point as the entry point I think the XT would have calculated its own route to that "entry point".
This is why, regardless of whatever else I've done, with the XT I also transfer a waypoint for my destination. Picking a route destination makes it act stupid, picking a distant Saved Place does not.
That is an interesting observation. Sorry if you said this previously - I'm not at home and fumbling with ipad. I normally have a PC, mouse, keyboard and two screens. Ipads are useful but .....

I rarely use CEP. I did a lot of testing when I first got the XT 4 years ago- and then retested again and again as they brought out software updates as the B team kept making changes to how CEP worked. But I had never noticed that behaviour.
From my testing long ago I decided that it was dodgy to use it if U turns were disabled. I dont know if they ever fixed that. It was because when choosing CEP, you are stationary, so it doesn't know which way you are facing. I had one situation where I tried it in Skipton, Yorkshire and it needed to turn me round, so it took me 100+. miles to some roundabout to turn me back north to head the way I needed to go. I never managed to get it to reproduce that to get a screen shot.
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Re: Had unexpected fun with RUT today.

Post by Peobody »

rbentnail wrote: 16 Jun 2024 12:30 This is why, regardless of whatever else I've done, with the XT I also transfer a waypoint for my destination.
To what benefit? If the route is transferred to internal storage then the via points contained therein automatically get recorded as Saved waypoints. If the route is transferred to the SD card then the via points contained therein are available for import. I'm kicking myself for not thinking of importing the destination hotel and then routing to it using its Saved record rather than searching for it.
rbentnail wrote: 16 Jun 2024 12:30 Picking a route destination makes it act stupid, picking a distant Saved Place does not.
As you know, I am an advocate of having via points sprinkled throughout a route for entry point selection following a restart. I now I know to check the routing to that entry point. I'm sure the stupid routing gets exponentially stupider in relation to the distance to the entry point.

@jfheath, are you convinced that had the route been a saved route rather than an imported one that the RUT behaviour would not have happened?
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