ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

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technoguppy
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ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by technoguppy »

So I've been using the ZUMO XT2 for past 3 months. We've (my wife and I) been using the units on our short and long runs so far. Here is what we know and have learned thus far.

My setup - ZUMO XT2 + Samsung S21 Ultra + SENA SRL-EXT (NOTE: I don't play music from either phone or XT2)
Wife's setup - ZUMO XT2 (+ 32GB SD for her music) + Samsung S22 + SENA 20S (Music plays from XT2 External SD Card)

Both setups have latest firmware, updates, apps on all devices.

1 - Bluetooth isn't always your friend
My unit works fine with my phone and Sena. If someone calls me, I can answer it via the Sena or the XT2. I get Smart Notifications. Intercom between me and my wife works fine. The group intercom is good (we've been a group of 4 riders). It's a little finnicky but that is Sena, not Garmin.

My wife's unit DOES NOT LIKE the Bluetooth to be enabled on her phone. When it is, the music playing from the XT2 at some point, minutes or many minutes after turning on, the sound becomes garbled and cannot be recovered unless a full power off and on cycle occurs. We have found that turning off the Bluetooth on her Samsung S22 prevents this from happening at any point. Since we learned this little trick, the "garbled" music has not happened. When she leaves it on, the same thing happens. The good news is that she is a stickler about being on the phone and riding. Doesn't do it, therefore it's not an issue for her.

2 - Shutdown during stop / fuel break results in loss of route (or at least is gets "unloaded")
We have both found that after a route is loaded and you are well into your trip, if you stop for a meal, gas, stretch, whatever and shut off your bike or your unit, the route needs to be "reloaded" again, rather than picking up where you just stopped. Rather annoying. You can leave the unit running off its battery (i.e. Cancel the shutdown) but then it is sitting there on while you eat, stretch, or get gas. This should be an easy fix for Garmin.

3 - Basecamp import overwritten by UNIT even with Shaping Points
Here's the scenario. Generally in Basecamp AND my unit, they have the same "AVOIDANCES" set up. No U-Turns, No Unpaved Roads. During one of our charity rides, there was a small section (400m or so) that was designated as unpaved. So to follow the route as planned by the event, I turned off the avoidance in Basecamp, planned and saved the route, and then imported it into XT2 via USB from Basecamp. The day of the event, I load the route, we're on our way. The road side arrows point one way, my XT2 points another. It had ignored the shaping points, ignored the override in the route and routed around the avoidance.

You ask, so what's the big deal?? You could have (should have) made sure the two were in sync (same Avoidances for Basecamp and XT2). Here's the issue I have. The moment you so much as look at the Avoidances screen on the XT2, for each and every route you load it then states "Avoidances have changed do you want to recalculate the route?". If I say YES, I have absolutely NO IDEA what the result will be on my unit or my wife's. And I have to do it for EACH AND EVERY route I load going forward. What a PITA!!!

4 - Tread App using Samsung DEX Interface (minor)
As most of us try to travel light, I have recently rediscovered the DEX feature of my Samsung S21 Ultra. In essense, I no longer need to bring a laptop or tablet with me. Instead I use my phone, connect it via HDMI to a screen, and voila, I have a functioning PC. I bring a small BT mouse and BT keyboard, which in the end saves me weight and critical space.

The drawback is that with a laptop (which fits nicely in my saddle bags) is that I no longer have Basecamp available to me if I want to reroute or otherwise plan / replan a route. Well you say, "That's what the Garmin Tread App is for!". Yes I guess it is. But as a man in his early 50s, working off of a phone screen is cumbersome and prone to errors. Using the DEX feature of the phone enables me to use a mouse, keyboard and a full screen to do my bidding. Here's the catch albeit minor. There are no controls beyond "finger swipes". I can zoom in to a spot but can't zoom out using either a mouse or a keyboard. Once I am zoomed in, it's view I get until I exit the DEX feature, go to the Tread App, use my two fingers to zoom in again. Another PITA! A simple PLUS / MINUS icon in any of the four corners would be very helpful Garmin.

5 - Error in Tread App
In the app, under SETTINGS / ROUTING / AVOIDANCES, one of the choices is "NO PAVED ROADS OR TRAILS". I think they mean UNPAVED but that's not what it says.
Technoguppy

Oakville, ON, Canada
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Garmin zumo XT2
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Re: ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by AugustFalcon »

I've had my XT for about 3 months also and during that time I've spent a little over 5 weeks on two different trips. My phone is a Motorola Edge Plus 2022 and it's Dex equivalent is Ready For which has exactly the same zoom problem. Garmin should work on fixing this. My Sena is a 10c with a camera and in the beginning was a little finicky but after re-pairing several times the Bluetooth has been very good with both the phone and telephone calls.
The Garmin traffic provider is still way below par sometimes claiming the highway is closed when it's not or failing to indicate which section of a divided US Interstate highway is blocked allowing me to choose the wrong one!
And their POI Motel database is seriously out of date, i.e., years behind.
Both failings have caused me to run an instance of Tom Tom Go on an old android phone next to the XT2.
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Re: ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by jfheath »

technoguppy wrote: 26 Jun 2023 14:23 3 - Basecamp import overwritten by UNIT even with Shaping Points

Here's the scenario. Generally in Basecamp AND my unit, they have the same "AVOIDANCES" set up. No U-Turns, No Unpaved Roads. During one of our charity rides, there was a small section (400m or so) that was designated as unpaved. So to follow the route as planned by the event, I turned off the avoidance in Basecamp, planned and saved the route, and then imported it into XT2 via USB from Basecamp. The day of the event, I load the route, we're on our way. The road side arrows point one way, my XT2 points another. It had ignored the shaping points, ignored the override in the route and routed around the avoidance.

You ask, so what's the big deal?? You could have (should have) made sure the two were in sync (same Avoidances for Basecamp and XT2). Here's the issue I have. The moment you so much as look at the Avoidances screen on the XT2, for each and every route you load it then states "Avoidances have changed do you want to recalculate the route?". If I say YES, I have absolutely NO IDEA what the result will be on my unit or my wife's. And I have to do it for EACH AND EVERY route I load going forward. What a PITA!!!
This is normal behaviour for the Zumos.

Basecamp does not send any information about the avoidances that you set in Basecamp itself. It sends only the vehicle (Motorcycle) and the routeinf prefence (Faster, Shorter, Direct and maybe OffRoad). Nothing else.

Basecamp plots the route using the avoidances that you have set in Basecamp, and that route is plotted precisely - not just with the Via and Shaping points that you use, but also with thousands of invisible 'ghost' points that are plotted very close together. Basecamp joins these points with straight lines, but they are so close together that they look like curves. When the route is received by the Zumos, providing the maps have remained the same, then this route with all of its ghost points is left intact.

That is until it recalculates. If the Zumo has to recalculate, it discards the original plot and the ghost points, and recalculates the route using the remaining Via Points and Shaping points. It uses its own algorithms for doing this, and if the XT2 is anything like the XT, it will perefer to use main roads than actually find the fastest route. It will also use the Zumos own settings that you have set for (say) Motorcycle. (On the XT and earlier, you can specify a different set of preferences for Car and for Motorcycle. It will use whichever set is specified in the vehicle selected in the Basecamp route - or it will use a default, if it doesn't recognise the vehicle. For the 590/595 and XT, the default is to use Motorcycle.

Now if you change the avoidance settings between getting your route into the Zumo and actually selecting it to Navigate, the Zumo knows that these have been changed - so it gives you a warning message. I am not clear when the warning message appears - when you transfer the route; when you import it; or when you select it and say Go!

But I suspect that if you make the changes to the avoidances and then transfer, import and select the route for navigation, then you will not get that warning message. Try it. Let us know. It might be that it doesn't spot the change until the route has been imported. So deleting the route from the XT screen, and then importing it again might prevent this from happening.****

****
  • The following is based on finding using the 590/595 and XT all using Media Transfer Protocol - which is the default setting for the later Zumos. I can only assume that this is the same for the XT2.

    You cannot always import a route once it has been deleted. If you transfer some routes, etc from Basecamp to Internal storage, they are put in a file called temp.gpx. When you import the routes using the XT screen, it reads them from temp.gpx and puts them into Current.gpx.

    If you later transfer more routes from Basecamp, then temp.gpx is overwritten with the new routes, so the old transfers are lost, and therefore you cannot import the older routes again. So if you delete them using the XT screen, they are gone for good.

    This is not the case if you transfer all of the routes / tracks / Favourites (waypoints) that you want at the same time. Neither does this happen if you transfer them to the SD card.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
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Re: ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by Javelin16 »

jfheath wrote: 05 Jan 2024 10:22
If you later transfer more routes from Basecamp, then temp.gpx is overwritten with the new routes, so the old transfers are lost, and therefore you cannot import the older routes again. So if you delete them using the XT screen, they are gone for good.
Hi jfheath,

A long time ago, I suffer from this during a long trip. Since then, to avoid any mishaps, immediately after transferring the selected routes from Basecamp, I usually rename the temp.gpx file in the GPX folder of the zumo using windows explorer("temp20240110.gpx" for example) and then disconnect the device. Then in a next transfer, i'm always sure to preserve the previous one without the need to transfer everything again in the new transfer. Not necessary for a transfer to the MC of course.
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Re: ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by Javelin16 »

If the road is exported in MRA, it is also safe for the road since the name of the gpx file (containing road,track and POIs) in the GPX folder of the internal memory of the device is the name of the route in MRA (and not temp.gpx). The only problem in that case is that the track is imported automatically in the XT2. When the track is deleted, it cannot be imported again from the gpx file. (Strange behaviour of the XT2 because reading the gpx file with notepad shows that the track is well in the file)
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Re: ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by jfheath »

Javelin16 wrote: 10 Jan 2024 16:22 If the road is exported in MRA, it is also safe for the road since the name of the gpx file (containing road,track and POIs) in the GPX folder of the internal memory of the device is the name of the route in MRA (and not temp.gpx). The only problem in that case is that the track is imported automatically in the XT2. When the track is deleted, it cannot be imported again from the gpx file. (Strange behaviour of the XT2 because reading the gpx file with notepad shows that the track is well in the file)
This behaviour was something I have been looking at in the last couple of days. It has been there in the Zumos since the 595. (Maybe the 590, I cannot find out until my new (broken) 590 arrives for me to repair mine. Here is what I discovered.

Stuff stored in internal storage - any GPX file. So far only tested in Internal Storage/GPX

Favourites. Imported automatically to Favourites / Saved. Can be re-imported - providing that there is at least one favourites available. If not, the Zumo doesn't even look for them. DOn't delete your last favourite ! Or tap the map to create a new one - the favourites will magically become available to import.

Tracks. Imported automatically to Tracks - from the contents of any GPX file. Once imported, the relevant lines containing track data is removed from the files. If it only contained track data, the file is deleted. Tracks cannot be reimported.

Routes are 'processed' on import. It seems that the coordinates are used to look up a location and the stored name of that location replaces the route point name that you allocated. From Basecamp, routes are transferred to temp.gpx, and then when imported stored in Current.gpx.
Basecamp over-writes temp.gpx if a subsequent transfer is made using a new USB connection. So any routes not imported on the XT cannot be imported again.
If a route is modified using the XT screen, the imported version is modifed, so if you reload the same route, it contains the modifications.
The imported route is not affected.

If you put GPX files onto the SD Card.

Favourites ar enot imported automatically. You have to manually import them. If there aren't any already available, the Zumo will not find the new ones. So make one, using the map to place a point - anywhere- and save it.

Tracks have to be imported manually using the track app. Tracks are not deleted and can be reimported.

Routes are still processed on import - with changes to names (595 and XT). But the XT does touch any data on the SD card - it does not delete files that have been transferred and all routes, tracks and favourites can be imported again - sometimes giving 2 copies of the same route, point or track. If you keep the name short enough, you will be able to see a sequence number added.

MyRouteApp does not send any favourites to the Zumo. MRA has a database of favourites and these can be put into the route. Curiously, you can make your own favourites - but they cannot be added to your route ! THis is an issues - becasue the only way you can make the Zumo keep the name that you give any point, is to create it as a Waypoint in Basecamp (with the waypoint flag tool). It doesn't alter the name of these.

Having been a long time advocate of using Internal Storage for routes, it is now creating many issues, most of which can be resolved by creating a gpx file and saving it to the SD card in the Garmin/GPX folder


All assuming the XT2 shows the same behaviour as the XT.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

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Re: ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by rbentnail »

Javelin16 wrote: 10 Jan 2024 16:14 Hi jfheath,

A long time ago, I suffer from this during a long trip. Since then, to avoid any mishaps, immediately after transferring the selected routes from Basecamp, I usually rename the temp.gpx file in the GPX folder of the zumo using windows explorer("temp20240110.gpx" for example) and then disconnect the device. Then in a next transfer, i'm always sure to preserve the previous one without the need to transfer everything again in the new transfer. Not necessary for a transfer to the MC of course.
This is a big reason I'm such a strong advocate of placing routes/trips on the SD card and not internal memory. It immediately becomes a non-issue. Routes stored there can be imported, deleted and imported again for re-use. And the routes already there are never affected by deletions and additions. This is why I started using the card so much on previous models, it became apparent to me why this is so much more important with the XT & XT2.

My riding group is very small most of the time so some things I'd like to do is to make sure everyone has the same maps installed and see if inserting my SD card in a different unit allows the other guy to import my maps. Garmin's Share utility doesn't work well, at least I can't figure out how to make it.
Russ B. Zumo 595 & XT
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Re: ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by jfheath »

Reluctantly, Russ, my comments agree with your observations. 'Reluctantly' because with the 590 it all worked perfectly, and I very much preferred Internal storage - not least becasue it was faster. And at the time, more reliable storage.

I have only just discovered that the track contents are stripped out from the gpx file. ie send a gpx file with a track to internal storage, and when you look at the file with a text editor after transfer, all of the lines related to tracks have been removed.
Now with all of the other issues, using the SD card is a much safer bet. By a long way, and I have started to recommend use of the SD card.

You just have to know how to import favourites if you have deleted them all.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

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Re: ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by FrankB »

jfheath wrote: 10 Jan 2024 22:52 I have only just discovered that the track contents are stripped out from the gpx file. ie send a gpx file with a track to internal storage, and when you look at the file with a text editor after transfer, all of the lines related to tracks have been removed.
John, In my tests the lines related to tracks only get deleted from the GPX when you delete the track in the track app. If you look at the GPX immediately after sending no lines are deleted.
That is not to say that the SD Card is not to be preferred. I just want to make clear that it's not the XT/XT2 that does this automatically.

I too use the SD Card, but not for routes/tracks. I use it for custom (OpenStreet Map) maps. What I try to prevent is removing and inserting, the SD Card, but that has to do with the size of my fingers :lol:
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Re: ZUMO XT2 - 3 months in

Post by Peobody »

FrankB wrote: 10 Jan 2024 23:06 John, In my tests the lines related to tracks only get deleted from the GPX when you delete the track in the track app. If you look at the GPX immediately after sending no lines are deleted.
Thanks Frank. I was going to ask for clarity before seeing your post. I routinely transfer routes and tracks from Basecamp to Internal Storage and have never had a problem with tracks not being available for import, keeping in mind the limitation of temp.gpx. I use the SD card to hold a copy of routes, and my music.

Speaking of importing, one of the frustrating things with the XT is that there is no way to identify the location of the file of each importable route or track. This means that routes and tracks can appear in the import list multiple times if they in temp.gpx, the SD card, and possibly in a .gpx file in Internal Storage. Did Garmin improve this in the XT2?

One final comment about putting routes directly on the SD Card. It is no fun to encounter a "Cannot calculate route" error when importing a route from the card in preparation for a ride, especially when away from home. My steps are Transfer, Import, Load, Verify. If all is well I will put a copy on the card if desired, and apply the mimport fix. I am withholding a rant about the absurdity of this much effort to try to insure that the roads I ride are the ones I specified in each route.
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