396 loads phantom routes

For everything Garmin Zumo 390/395/396 related
BigBird
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396 loads phantom routes

Post by BigBird »

I'm a noob here but a long time BC & Garmin user having a non-noob problem. It punished me yesterday. Ugghh.

Here's my trail of tears in case any of you are feeling curious, generous, and wise. There should be sufficient info there to reproduce (or LMK if it doesn't? !!) and dissect. It's a real science project. I am using an up-to-date zumo 396 with up-to-date BaseCamp on Win10. City Navigator North America NT 2023.1 (in Virginia).

I created and exported a route to the GPS, it said it imported, the trip count increased by 1, but there was no route there. I clicked through on the device to re-import, and it gave the cannot import error message for Routename 1 (i.e. it knows Routename is [sort of] there). I can't for the life of me figure out why. So the device says I have, for example, 10 routes but there are only 9 there and

I wind up resetting device (data and settings), took a complete Mulligan, and everything repeated the same. Also sent the route to a friend (also 396) and she had the same result.

I then flailed at a few things in the source route, like duplicating it and exporting the duplicate, still got the fail.

I then split the route in two, re-reset the GPS, tried to import all three parts -- original part 1, part 2. All three seemed to process, Trip Planner shows three route, but only the part 1 route is there to select. Part 2 gave the same phantom result (trip count goes up, but no route there). Here is the GPX file: those three routes, some waypoints, and the reference tracks. https://1drv.ms/u/s!Am5GnNzOpxmXpbokwsj ... g?e=kHIp3S. Part 1 was enough for me to get it done, so I stopped there.

If you try to import, please let me know if you have the same problem, i.e. only part 1 will load and be available, the other two will pretend to load then not be there, though you'll be +3 on route count in Trip Planner.

Other info:
  • The route isn't the simplest one because it couldn't be, but it's not anything out of spec for # via points, shaping points, etc. After being split in half, it's even more in spec.
  • I did have another issue with some anomalies around moved routepoints. Discussed here: viewtopic.php?t=1787 IDK if it's related or just concurrent. I can't isolate a POI-turned-routepoint in part 2 of the route that is causing the problem.
  • It was lousy timing since I was up late getting ready for a long day of ride escort. I have seen the phantom route issue before, years ago. I can't find if/how I solved it, I don't think I did, just re-set my way out of the mis-count when I got sick of looking at the anomaly. Then this reared its ugly head again when I was under the gun
jfheath
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Re: 396 loads phantom routes

Post by jfheath »

BigBird wrote: 16 May 2022 17:44
I then split the route in two, re-reset the GPS, tried to import all three parts -- original part 1, part 2. All three seemed to process, Trip Planner shows three route, but only the part 1 route is there to select. Part 2 gave the same phantom result (trip count goes up, but no route there). Here is the GPX file: those three routes, some waypoints, and the reference tracks. https://1drv.ms/u/s!Am5GnNzOpxmXpbokwsj ... g?e=kHIp3S. Part 1 was enough for me to get it done, so I stopped there.

If you try to import, please let me know if you have the same problem, i.e. only part 1 will load and be available, the other two will pretend to load then not be there, though you'll be +3 on route count in Trip Planner.

Ok - I dont have the USA maps but I tried to do what you have done.
And I got the same result. Only one route out of the three that were transferred was available for import.

Now - I have seen this behaviour before when I made an alteration to a route but sent it with the same name. It didn't transfer the altered route - because there was one already saved with the same name.

So I renamed all three routes. ALZ 0, ALZ 1, ALZ 2
And then transferred them again.

And that worked as it should.

It seems that maybe only the first n characters of the route name are recognised by the XT.
And it just so happened that the first n characters of each route name were identical.

So it didn't save the 2nd and 3rd route, as it already had a route with that name !

(I am making an assumption here, but I think that it stands a good chance of being a correct one.
I don't know what the maximum name size is - and the displayed name may be different from the number of characters that it checks.

All I can say is that the max is something less than the 24 characters in "ALZ Leesburg Motor Route"

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
jfheath
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Re: 396 loads phantom routes

Post by jfheath »

BigBird wrote: 16 May 2022 17:44
I then split the route in two, re-reset the GPS, tried to import all three parts -- original part 1, part 2. All three seemed to process, Trip Planner shows three route, but only the part 1 route is there to select. Part 2 gave the same phantom result (trip count goes up, but no route there). Here is the GPX file: those three routes, some waypoints, and the reference tracks. https://1drv.ms/u/s!Am5GnNzOpxmXpbokwsj ... g?e=kHIp3S. Part 1 was enough for me to get it done, so I stopped there.

If you try to import, please let me know if you have the same problem, i.e. only part 1 will load and be available, the other two will pretend to load then not be there, though you'll be +3 on route count in Trip Planner.

Ok - I dont have the USA maps but I tried to do what you have done.
And I got the same result. Only one route out of the three that were transferred was available for import.

Now - I have seen this behaviour before when I made an alteration to a route but sent it with the same name. It didn't transfer the altered route - because there was one already saved with the same name.

So I renamed all three routes. ALZ 0, ALZ 1, ALZ 2
And then transferred them again.

And that worked as it should.

It seems that maybe only the first n characters of the route name are recognised by the XT.
And it just so happened that the first n characters of each route name were identical.

So it didn't save the 2nd and 3rd route, as it already had a route with that name !

(I am making an assumption here, but I think that it stands a good chance of being a correct one.
I don't know what the maximum name size is - and the displayed name may be different from the number of characters that it checks.

All I can say is that if I am correct, the max is something less than the 24 characters in "ALZ Leesburg Motor Route"

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
jfheath
Posts: 1072
Joined: 19 Oct 2019 16:17
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Re: 396 loads phantom routes

Post by jfheath »

BigBird wrote: 16 May 2022 17:44
I then split the route in two, re-reset the GPS, tried to import all three parts -- original part 1, part 2. All three seemed to process, Trip Planner shows three route, but only the part 1 route is there to select. Part 2 gave the same phantom result (trip count goes up, but no route there). Here is the GPX file: those three routes, some waypoints, and the reference tracks. https://1drv.ms/u/s!Am5GnNzOpxmXpbokwsj ... g?e=kHIp3S. Part 1 was enough for me to get it done, so I stopped there.

If you try to import, please let me know if you have the same problem, i.e. only part 1 will load and be available, the other two will pretend to load then not be there, though you'll be +3 on route count in Trip Planner.

Ok - I dont have the USA maps but I tried to do what you have done.
And I got the same result. Only one route out of the three that were transferred was available for import.

Now - I have seen this behaviour before when I made an alteration to a route but sent it with the same name. It didn't transfer the altered route - because there was one already saved with the same name.

So I renamed all three routes. ALZ 0, ALZ 1, ALZ 2
And then transferred them again.

And that worked as it should.

It seems that maybe only the first n characters of the route name are recognised by the XT.
And it just so happened that the first n characters of each route name were identical.

So it didn't save the 2nd and 3rd route, as it already had a route with that name !

(I am making an assumption here, but I think that it stands a good chance of being a correct one.
I don't know what the maximum name size is - and the displayed name may be different from the number of characters that it checks.

All I can say is that if I am correct, the max is something less than the 24 characters in "ALZ Leesburg Motor Route"

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
BigBird
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Re: 396 loads phantom routes

Post by BigBird »

Thanks for experimenting @jfheath

What I hear you saying is that the first N characters have to be unique, or the device confounds the routes that have unique names with >N characters.

I've got to get through this week, then will tinker with that some more.

If that's really how it works, that offends my sense of decency, and I assume yours, too. However, as long as I can get something to work, I'll get by.
BigBird
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Re: 396 loads phantom routes

Post by BigBird »

I tried it with renaming all three routes: whole route to ALZ-0, part 1 of 2 to ALZ-1, and part 2 of 2 to ALZ-0.

It didn't solve anything. ALZ-0 and ALZ-1 seemed to import, but only ALZ-1 was there. ALZ-0 became a phantom route.

The weird new thing is ALZ-2 gave me a "cannot import" error.

I thought this was a lottery ticket anyway, because the route that came in fine had more characters in its name than the one that was loaded previously and failed.

I submitted to Garmin support. Fingers crossed! Everybody please join me in wishing Carla good luck cracking this nut.
jfheath
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Re: 396 loads phantom routes

Post by jfheath »

HHmm. It worked for me.

But I have just had another couple of goes at this and it is doing the same as yours with the shortened names. Except now none of them will load on mine. But mine is an XT and I don't have USA maps.

But why I am getting different behaviour now from the behaviour I got last night, I do not know.

Except - today I updated to v6.50 of the firmware......
I'll roll it back to 6.40 and see what happens.

No. It is doing it with 6.40 too.

So the only other thing that may have changed is that Basecamp has altered the route from the one that I downloaded. Last night, I just loaded the route into Basecamp and changed the name. But I did fiddle around with Basecamp afterwards, so maybe that is it.

Don't know.

Good luck with Garmin !!

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
BigBird
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Re: 396 loads phantom routes

Post by BigBird »

Garmin chat agent worked with me for a while to understand the problem. I even sent her the link to this thread. Then she said she'd work on it and get back to me by email.

Haven't heard a peep since. Disappointing. They're usually better than that.
BigBird
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Re: 396 loads phantom routes

Post by BigBird »

See page 2 of this PDF for a view of 4 phantom routes.
https://1drv.ms/b/s!Am5GnNzOpxmXpbo0IpQ ... A?e=fNFeeO

Still nothing heard from Garmin support. I guess they threw in the towel.

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