did I hear this correctly?

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rufasim
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did I hear this correctly?

Post by rufasim »

I have been using basecamp to make my routes for my brand new zumo xt. This is my first season using this gps. I read some where that if you delete a route from the xt, you can not load it back correctly again. Is this true. I don't like to keep a lot of routes on the unit. I prefer to keep them in the computer and just load it to the device when I want to ride ride.
jfheath
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Re: did I hear this correctly?

Post by jfheath »

No, that is not correct. As long as you have imported the routes, they remain safe.


There are two steps to get routes from Basecamp to the XT

You transfer routes from Basecamp to the XT.
You then import them into the XT, and you can use whichever routes have been transferred and imported.
You can then load any route to navigate.

However, there is a glitch. If you transfer routes on a number of different occasions, and import all of the transferred routes, all of those imported routes remain safe on the XT. The next time you connect the USB cable and transfer more routes, the previous transfers are deleted. When you go to import, only the last set are available to import.

The problem only arises if you don't import routes after you have disconnected the cable.

It used to be that if you mess up a route by trying to edit it, that was ok. You could delete it and the original would be there to re-import. That is no longer the case with the XT - unless you always transfer ALL of the routes that you want to be on your XT from Basecamp at the same time - ie without breaking the USB connection).

But whatever - if you have imported your routes, they remain safe until you edit them ir delete them using the XT screen.

If you transfer gpx files manually (eg using File Explorer), to put into the XT's GPX folder, this problem doesn't happen.
Neither does it happen if you send to the SD card - but that can present other issues.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
rufasim
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Re: did I hear this correctly?

Post by rufasim »

I think I got it. If you don't import the route onto xt, after transferring it from basecamp, you can loose or damage your route. I can delete and transfer and import as many times as I wish and no issues will incur to the route, just as long as I import it after transferring it. Is that correct?
rbentnail
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Re: did I hear this correctly?

Post by rbentnail »

rufasim wrote: 03 Apr 2022 08:48 I think I got it. If you don't import the route onto xt, after transferring it from basecamp, you can loose or damage your route. I can delete and transfer and import as many times as I wish and no issues will incur to the route, just as long as I import it after transferring it. Is that correct?
That is correct but there is another way. I do not like to leave my routes imported, it's too cluttered for me. I delete them when I don't need them. But many different models of Garmins delete the route COMPLETELY from the device- the nuvi780, the 595 and the XT all do this. If you want to use that same route again, you have to re-transfer it. The XT further complicates it in that if you re-transfer a route it wants to delete all routes already in internal memory that are not active imports. Who in the world wants to delete all their routes?

Here's what I do: Don't transfer your routes to INTERNAL MEMORY of the XT. And DO NOT use the File/Transfer command in Base Camp to get routes to your XT. I installed a 128gb SD microcard. The 8th post in this thread -> viewtopic.php?p=10902&hilit=insert#p10902 is what I did. Use a brand new card and DO NOT try to format in a computer. Really, the XT will do that for you.

Now, when you want to duplicate your routes from Base Camp to the XT, again DO NOT use the Transfer command. Highlight the desired route title(s) in the list bottom left of Base Camp, then Drag & Drop it (them) to the INTERNAL MEMORY of the XT list.

Now you can import any route(s) at your leisure. And you can delete it from use when finished using it. Only now it's deleted from 'Active Memory' but it always remains on the card. You can re-import and later delete it any time you'd like, as many times as you'd like. And you can Drag & Drop as often as you'd like without fear of losing any routes waiting to be imported.

And in Base Camp, you can select the Internal Memory card when the XT is connected and see/modify what's on it just like any other List Folder.

edit: I'm an XT newbie but I've found some similarities with previous models I've owned. This thread is a bit of an on-going newbie-to-XT discussion -> viewtopic.php?t=1670.
Russ B. Zumo 595 & XT
2007 & 2013 USA Yamaha FJR1300A
jfheath
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Re: did I hear this correctly?

Post by jfheath »

rufasim wrote: 03 Apr 2022 08:48 I think I got it. If you don't import the route onto xt, after transferring it from basecamp, you can loose or damage your route. I can delete and transfer and import as many times as I wish and no issues will incur to the route, just as long as I import it after transferring it. Is that correct?
That is correct. But if you like your routes to be available for import when you are out and about (I do), then the routes that were transferred during an earlier USB connection will no longer be available.

Read the bit below, becasue although what Russ described is what appears to be happening, it is not what actually happens.
rbentnail wrote: 03 Apr 2022 10:03
That is correct but there is another way. I do not like to leave my routes imported, it's too cluttered for me. I delete them when I don't need them. But many different models of Garmins delete the route COMPLETELY from the device- the nuvi780, the 595 and the XT all do this. If you want to use that same route again, you have to re-transfer it.
No Russ, that is still not correct.

If a route has been imported, the XT will not delete that route when you transfer new ones.

Suppose you do this:

Transfer Routes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

You then transfer routes 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.

You then disconnect the cable and use the XT screen.
You then go to import the routes. All of the routes are available to import. ie 1-10.
But you choose to import routes 2, 4, 6, 8, 10

Now when you got to choose a route in trip planner there are 5 of them available. The evn numbered ones.
If you take a look at import all 10 of them are available to import. (You can import the same route twice - you get two copies of it in the XT).

Now you reconnect the USB cable to Basecamp because you forgot to transfer route 11-15.
So you begin transfer of routes 11, 12, 13, 14, 15.

You disconnect the cable and go to import the routes that you have transferred. Only routes 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 are available for import. The other transferred files are no longer available. So you import all 5 of those routes.

Now go to Trip Planner, see what routes are available. It will be all of the routes that you have imported.
ie 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15.

Routes 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 are not there. But they weren't there in the first place. You didn't import them. You only transferred them.
I agree you have lost them, but they haven't been deleted from the Zumos store of available routes. They have been deleted fromt he set of files that were transferred.

All of the transferred routes from the first two batches ie routes 1-10 are no longer available for import. You had the chance to import them, but chose only to import the even numbered routes.

As soon as you reconnected the USB cable and started to transfer more routes, the previous transfers were deleted. But not the imports.

Technical bit. When you transfer routes from Basecamp, they are stored in a file called temp.gpx on the XT While-ever the USB cable is attached, that file is open and ready to receive more routes. This is a holding location - somewhere to put the routes after transfer. The import process takes copies of the transferred routes and stores them somewhere else. I know not where, but suspect it is in the .System folder. I ahven't been able to find it.

It used to be - with the 660, 590 and 595 that I know of, then when a new transfer process was started, temp.gpx was opened so that new routes could be appended to the bottom of the file.
Not any more. As soon as the file temp.gpx is opened up, it is opened to write. Not to append. So anything that is in it is lost.

That's OK. It makes sense. Why would you want to transfer routes if you had no intention of importing them.
I reckon that Garmin had spotted that temp.gpx never gets deleted on the 590 and 595. It will get massive. And there is no way of clearing it out either on the Zumo or from within Basecamp. I reckon that this would cause all sorts of unforseen errors as the amount of memeory available in the Zumo was gradually eaten away.

Getting rid of temp.gpx was quite difficult. It involved having to dleete it twice and performing a cold restart.

I don't think it is a bug. I think it is deliberate to prevent the other problems. But it actually creates some.

As I said before - either transfer routes to SD card (being aware of the issues that this can create)
Or if you need to add to routes that you have already transferred, when you coonect the USB cable, transfer all of them. So in the example above, the mistake was to just transfer routes 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 after reconnecting the cable.
What would have solved everything is to transfer all 15 routes 1-15.

Then import just the ones you want to be immediately available.
You can then delete routes from the Zumo XT and then import whatever you want from the 15 routes that have been transferred.
Nothing will delete thos imported routes except you using the Zumo Trip planner DELETE option.
Nothing will delete the transferred routes until you reconnect the USB cable and transfer something else. But that will not delete the routes that have been imported.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
rbentnail
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Re: did I hear this correctly?

Post by rbentnail »

Ok, in all that I apparently do not agree- the minor differences in what we are saying is b/c I do NOT leave routes imported. I delete them when I'm done using them. You did not seem to address that. In fact, you said "Then import just the ones you want to be immediately available." I don't do that either, I transfer the routes I have for an entire region (1000 miles N to S, about 600 miles E to W) to have them available at any time without connecting to Base Camp again. I don't always have the capability to do that.

If one chooses to use the gps as you do, sure, I see your the differences. But I offered up an alternate way of using it- keep all route available at all times without keeping them all imported all the time by using the SD card instead of internal memory. This way nothing EVER gets deleted upon transfer of a new route.
Russ B. Zumo 595 & XT
2007 & 2013 USA Yamaha FJR1300A
jfheath
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Re: did I hear this correctly?

Post by jfheath »

Hi Russ.

I think we are talking at cross-purposes. I certainly did not mean to suggest or even hint that you were doing anything the 'wrong way'. There is no such thing. People can find the best way for them. Whether or not it matches the way I do things is irrelevant.

@rufasim asked a very straight forward question:
"I read some where that if you delete a route from the xt, you can not load it back correctly again. Is this true."
And the answer to that is No - it isn't true.

But I went on to describe the circumstances where someone might think that it was true. But neither the 590 or the XT will delete routes that have been successfully imported. I gave a demonstration to show how routes can get 'lost' - by being careless about not importing them before transferring the later routes. That is definitely not the way I use my Zumos !!

If someone knows how it happens, then they are less likely to have it happen to them by accident.

Putting routes onto the SD card is most definitley a way of dealing with the situation. Sharing routes between Zumos, emailing a route to a Zumo, manually placing the gpx files into the Internal Storage/GPX folder also by-pass this problem with deleted transferred files.

On the 590 and 595 I'd transfer whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. If Any route got messed up by me messing about, I could just delete it, knowing that it would be there for importing again. That is onl possible now on the XT if you transfer every route every time. Not something that would work very well for the way that you want to use the XT.

Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.

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