Basecamp devise transfer options.

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groundhog719
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Basecamp devise transfer options.

Post by groundhog719 »

Version 4.7.3 using a Zumo XT (coming from MapSource and a GPSMap 276C)

Looking at the OPTIONS drop-down under DEVICE TRANSFER there are 4 check boxes (unchecked by default). Can someone explain (in detail maybe) exactly what each does? Especially the "Always match route to the map on my device when transferring."

thanks
jfheath
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Re: Basecamp devise transfer options.

Post by jfheath »

Edit Options.jpg

This is what I understand happens with these settings. I have tried and used all of them at various times - particularly when writing the document about Basecamp and the 590/595. There may be other reasons and explanation that I am not aware of. Feel free to chip in if you know alternative facts !!


1. Strip Shaping Points.
A route can consist of Via Points (which will alert on arrival) and Shaping Points (which will not alert on arrival)
Do not confuse with Waypoints. Stored Waypoints can be added to a route, but when they are, they become Via Points on the route, or can be changed to non alerting shaping points. A Waypoint is not the term to use when describing the routing points that make up a route.

If this is ticked, all of the shaping points are removed from the route - but the route on the Zumo remains exactly as it was when the shaping points were there. Garmin achieves this by sending a load of invisible route points (I call them ghost points) along with the route. The trouble with this is that if the zumo has to recalculate a route, it does so between the shaping points and via points and all of those ghost points are lost. This is particularly true with the XT - if (say) you use the Skip function - the entire route is recalculated.



2. Also send the original route.
If you ask Basecamp to strip out the shaping points, you may find that you want the route that had the shaping points in place. Ticking both of these boxes will send two routes to the Zumo - one with the shaping points, one without.

Whichever you select - the Via Points (alerting) are always sent to the Zumo.

3. Always Match route to the map.

The Zumo works best if you use Basecamp maps and the maps in Basecamp are identical to the maps on the Zumo. In this case, transferring and importing routes takes just a few seconds. If the Zumo detects that the map used to create a route is different from the one in the Zumo, the Zumo will recalculate the entire route, plotting a course between the Via Points and Shaping Points that the route provides.
It needs to be able to do this if for example an older Basecamp map shows an old road but the Zumo map has the new bypass.
To do this recalculation, it uses the settings in the Zumo (faster, shorter, avoidances etc) and will probably come up with a different route from the one that you saw in Basecamp. But this recalculation takes a lot of time.

Ticking this box ensures that the Zumo always does this recalculation. It therefore always takes a long time to transfer and to import the routes. But it gives you the opportunity to see the route that the Zumo will calculate, rather than it coming up with a surprise when you are on tour. But there are other, faster ways of achieving this.



4 Simplify tracks

A track is not navigable. You can use Basecamp to convert a route into a track, and you can send that to the Zumo and the Zumo can be set to display the track on the screen - in a different colour (say). This is very useful if you have a route which may recalculate when you are riding. If you display the track as well, then you have a view of where the original route was before the Zumo changed it. The Zumo will show both on screen simultaneously.

The Zumo also records a track of where you have been (thousands of dots which include information about time, date, speed, elevation). These are a useful record of where you have been and when, and can be displayed on the BAsecamp maps and be used to create things like elevation and speed profiles. This is completely irrelevant to the Simplify Track function - Except - Sometimes it is useful to recreate a route from an old track. BAsecamp and Zumo can both do thise, but you end up with far too many points. A route may typically contain say 10 key points and it lets the stanva work out where to go in between. A track contains thousands of points. Basecamp and Zumo simply join the dots with a short straight line. Together it looks like smooth curves.
There may be situations where you want to reduce the number of points in a track. So this feature allows this to happen. So if the original track has 5000 points and you set a limit of 500 points, Basecamp will pick every tenth point and join them together with a (longer) straight line.
I use my tracks a lot - and have all of my trips from around 2007. I have never felt the need to cut down the number of points.

I recommend making sure that all of these boxes are unticked - Unless you know that you want that particular feature.
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Last edited by jfheath on 29 Dec 2020 09:22, edited 2 times in total.
ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone
yorky
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Re: Basecamp devise transfer options.

Post by yorky »

OK, it;s been a couple of days and no one else has had a go at this one so I'll offer my very amateur opinion on the main question, "Always match route to the map on device on transferring"

I checked my settings and I have this one ticked. My take on this is that if you do not have the same map loaded on the Zumo as you have on the PC/Mac then it will change the route to suit the map that you actually have installed, so that it's still rideable. But you may not go the route that you wanted to take.

This is the reason it is so important to have the same mapping installed on the Zumo as you have in Basecamp.

I hope that's correct but if I'm wrong no doubt someone will shout up ;)

(Must learn to type faster :lol: )
tcbandituk
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Re: Basecamp devise transfer options.

Post by tcbandituk »

jfheath wrote: 29 Dec 2020 09:12

1. Strip Shaping Points.
A route can consist of Via Points (which will alert on arrival) and Shaping Points (which will not alert on arrival)
Do not confuse with Waypoints. Stored Waypoints can be added to a route, but when they are, they become Via Points on the route, or can be changed to non alerting shaping points. A Waypoint is not the term to use when describing the routing points that make up a route.
So if you change a Shaping point to Alert on Arrival, does it then become a Via point?
colirv
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Re: Basecamp devise transfer options.

Post by colirv »

tcbandituk wrote: 30 Dec 2020 09:53 So if you change a Shaping point to Alert on Arrival, does it then become a Via point?
Yes.
FJR1300A
jfheath
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Re: Basecamp devise transfer options.

Post by jfheath »

tcbandituk wrote: 30 Dec 2020 09:53 So if you change a Shaping point to Alert on Arrival, does it then become a Via point?
Yes, and vice versa.

----------

It is a tad confusing because the route list in Basecamp that lists all of the points has the heading 'Via Point Name' - even though it lists Non Alerting (shaping) Points as well as Via Points - as shown below.
temp route list.jpg
I think that it is a remnant of the software when the Zumos only handled Via Points. (eg 550).

You can also change them on the Zumo itself: But there is a glitch on the XT and the 595: If you change a Via Point to a Shaping Point on the Zumo screen, it will probably change its name and move it to a different location !! It doesn't happen changing a shaping to a Via Point, and it doesn't happen at all on the 590.

(Fault reported to Garmin and acknowledged).
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kaeshex2
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Re: Basecamp devise transfer options.

Post by kaeshex2 »

jfheath: Where is your printed presentation located these day?
I watched all of your videos and read the presentation, but the link I had for the latter, no longer works.
I'd like to thank you for all the work you put into creating them.
It gave me a basis of knowledge as a starting point.

After reading/watching all of it, I did long, extensive experiments to determine how the GPX files are configured to send to the Zumo, (and how much of that content was trash that could be discarded). Then I wrote a Perl script that can take a CSV file of a list of waypoints, (and optionally routes based on those points), and create the GPX file for the Zumo. I find it less hassle than dealing with Basecamp. I don't even bother with shaping points. My rides are alway in the mountains of Colorado, and just a few via points lock in a desired route w/o all the shaping point trash. I use Google Maps to find the lat/lon of each desired waypoint.
jfheath
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Re: Basecamp devise transfer options.

Post by jfheath »

The GPX file contains hundreds (thousands) of additional points which have the tag GPXX - GPX Extensions. When the GPX file format was created, different manufacturers wanted to do different things with GPX files. Rather than cater for the wide range of options, I believe they put in a GPXX facility which allowed different manufacturers to declare their own parameters for certain features.

Garmin use these extensively to store the thousands of points which represent the route that Basecamp and Mapsource draws using the navigation preferences between the various Via Points and Shaping Points. In this way, the route received by the Zumo is absolutely identical to the one that was in Basecamp. That is - until the Zumo decides to recalculate it.

It was an extremely useful feature - ensuring that routes do not have to be calculated by the Zumo when they are first loaded. This is still a useful feature. But with the addition of traffic information, riding history and preferences, and the skip and autoskip feature on the 595 and XT means that the entire route is recalculated much more frequently than was the case before.

But you are right - the only things you actually need in a GPX file are the start end, via and shaping points. These present the straight line route between the various points, which the Zumo will then use to calculate.

The article ? Well it turned out that someone had downloaded it and posted it elsewhere under their own name. No permission, no please or thankyou, no credit given. So I sorted that little issue out and removed the links. You are welcome to have a personalised copy @kaeshex2 if you send me your email address. On condition that it is for your use only. Not to be shared with anyone else. I am assuming you meant the one that I wrote for using the 590 and 595 with Basecamp ?

Send me a PM with your email address. I'll email a copy to you.

I'd be interested in your Perl Script too if you wouldn't mind ? One thing I noted about the 595 and the XT is that when you send it Via Points and Shaping Points, Both of these later Zumos ignore the name of the point that has been sent and substitute one which I think is obtained from the Zumos internal database using the lat/long coordinates. (perhaps FourSquare ? - I don't know). One thing is for sure - it is sent the given name from Basecamp, and it uses something that hasn't come from Basecamp. Unless that point was first created as a stored Waypoint.

I had it in mind to create a program which altered the Vias and Shaping points in a way that would fool the Zumo into thinking it has to use the original names.

I'll await your Private Message.
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BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone
groundhog719
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Re: Basecamp devise transfer options.

Post by groundhog719 »

Thanks for the answers to my questions. About what I had figured, but I wanted to be sure.

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