Introducing TripManager

[smfollen]

@Treve First, I will copy what FrankB said - You're welcome. I also don't regard it as 'work'. It is definitely a hobby 'gone out of control'. I'm glad you find it helpful, but FrankB deserves all the credit for Trip Manager.

Second, to address your question, I do not use Tread at all. It has too many issues for me.

[Gerard]

Hi guys, just want to let you know that after i bought the XT2, 2 months ago, i created several routes to be used in Scotland.

Then I found out the hard way using the XT2 and its strange behaviour on my Scotland trip. Looking where I could find some answers (came from a 660) i found and really love this topic. It is a real eye opener for me.

Great job by all of you. Thanks thank thanks

[FrankB]

@smfollen Has updated the User's Guide he created to match Version V1.4.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Frank ... e_V1.4.pdf

Thanks Steve

[Scarecrow]

Question for FrankB
I've had a look through this Topic and couldn't find an answer. (sorry if I've missed it).
I usually plan the routes for our trips to Europe and my question is:-
If I plan the trips using TripManager ( great work by the way)
Can these routes be transferred via Bluetooth to the other XT's, Xt2 in the group.
without the RUT problem occurring on them.
Thanks
Del

[FrankB]

A very good question Del.

When you send a trip from one to another unit directly via Bluetooth, the trip will be listed on the destination unit as 'Imported', and not 'Saved'. And as such it will not be fixed for RUT. I have only tested this myself with the XT1, but I dont expect it will be different on the XT2.

I'm assuming that when you transfer the trips via Bluetooth, you dont have a PC near you with TripManager loaded. So my solution would be to (re)save the trip on the destination unit. See the section 'Modify the trip on the XT' here: https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/viewto ... xing+trips
For the XT2 there is a copy function which does the same.

Frank

[Scarecrow]

Thank you
I may give your suggestion a go

[jfheath]

When you send a trip from one to another unit directly via Bluetooth, the trip will be listed on the destination unit as 'Imported', and not 'Saved'. And as such it will not be fixed for RUT. I have only tested this myself with the XT1, but I dont expect it will be different on the XT2.

Frank

The last bit about the XT2 isn't correct. But you are right in the way that you describe how to get the same result. Sorry FrankB - perhaps that was a piece of information that I did not pass on.

I have not found a way on the XT2 to determine whether a route is deemed to be imported or saved. Routes are listed in the Explore Categories, no matter where the came from. But it doesn not list them as 'Imported' or 'Saved' routes. It does however, tell you where the gpx file has been found. Internal Storage/Folder Name/Filename.gpx or the same for the SD card. If you have imported and selected the source (and the routes within the file), then they will be regarded as imported.

The only surefire way to find out is to load TripManager, select the appropriate trip file and look at the mImported value. To be RUT proof, we want it to be set to False.

But the Copy function on the XT2 works much more quickly than the fudge on the XT1. You select the route, load it and immediately tap the spanner/wrench in the top left corner. That allows you to select Copy and I always type in a name that is very similar to the original routename, but I put a character in front of it - @ - so that I can recognise it as copied (and therefore RUT free) route. I would have used the (C) symbol, but there isn't one available !

These routes then behave perfectly correctly.

If you cannot use Trip Managager, then I think that it is safest to assume that any route that has come from the Tread App and has been synched, are regarded 'saved', the mImported will flag set to False and will be RUT free.

Any route that has come from a grpx file and either transferred to the XT2 by cable, from Basecamp or by any other means (including BT transfer via the TreadApp) - all of those are regarded as 'imported' and the mIported flag will be set to True. These will display RUT behaviour if the route ever has to recalculate.

If you Copy the route using the copy option, these will be set as saved - mImported is set to False and will be rut free. The only way of knowing is to make sure that you use a name that indicates this to you. Like the '@' character

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I came across an issue which I have yet answer - routes are shown in the lists with a Two Pin icon alongside. Normally this is blue, but I have seen the icon displayed in the list as red. And we cannot find out why. Neither have I found a way to make it happen.
Unfortunately (I have just checked) it doesn't indicate whether the route is saved or imported.

As yet, it is a mystery,

[FrankB]

The last bit about the XT2 isn't correct. But you are right in the way that you describe how to get the same result. Sorry FrankB - perhaps that was a piece of information that I did not pass on.

No need to be sorry John, what matters is that we make clear how it works. Any clarification is welcome.

When I said "but I dont expect it will be different on the XT2." I only meant that a trip shared by bluetooth from one XT2 to another XT2 will likely by 'Imported', not 'Saved'. Just as with XT1.

[proofresistant]

Hello,

First of all, a big thank you for the Tripmanager.

I have now tried "something" with it and have a few questions.

1st question:
If GPX routes are sent to the XT2 as a trip via "Transfer to device", why do the individual shaping points have the attribute "Shaping point" instead of "Shaping point XT2"
mLocations.LCTN (xyz).mAttr = "Shaping point"
vs
mLocations.LCTN (xyz).mAttr = "Shaping point XT2"
And, does this have any effect at all?

2nd question:
You can "clean up" the route with "Post process"
This centers points, which is good.
But, the basis for the points is the OSM map, which differs from the Garmin City Navigator map and therefore it is not more accurate?
I would also be interested to know how far points can be away from the roads before Garmin can no longer calculate with them.
I'm asking because I still haven't found out when and why Garmin sometimes refuses to work and I'm not sure whether I should use the option or not.

Then at the moment my last 3rd question or better said, search for a possibility.
I would like to transfer routes to the Garmin as trips so that the XT2 no longer calculates them, even when importing them. It simply takes too many minutes.
Is it conceivable that at some point in the future, calculated GPX routes, 1:1 of the existing calculation, can also be transferred to the XT2 as a trip?
It is a mystery to me, by the way, on the basis of which attributes the XT2 recognizes that the externally used maps or routing restrictions deviate from the device's internal map.

I would be pleased to receive a reply, but I would like to thank the developer and the helpers once again !!!

@Garmin: Thank you for the fact that so many people spend days and nights dealing with issues of poor or faulty functionality.

[jfheath]

I can take a stab at each of these. Otheres may chime in with additional information.

1st question:
If GPX routes are sent to the XT2 as a trip via "Transfer to device", why do the individual shaping points have the attribute "Shaping point" instead of "Shaping point XT2"
mLocations.LCTN (xyz).mAttr = "Shaping point"
vs
mLocations.LCTN (xyz).mAttr = "Shaping point XT2"
And, does this have any effect at all?

When the XT2 gets information - or when Tread gets information (eg a gpx file containing a route), they 'process' it.
I guess it assumes the route points are not positioned accurately and that they are not named appropriately - because so many users use different maps with different route planners - and they are not careful enough to make sure that the point is on the bridge rather than in the river.
So it improves the route points (via and shaping) so that they are on a road; so that they are at a known location; so that they have a reasonable name.
Mostly the changes do not have a massive affect, except irritate the hell out of those of us that place our points carefully. I note fro eample that if a saved Waypoint was used to mark the location of a Via point, and the Via gets adjusted, the Waypoint marker and Via Point marker are in slightly different locations and the Saved Waypoint is not on the route !!

Shaping points are treated as largely irrelevant. Either the XT2 or the Tread App (or both) just give the name Shaping Point. These tend to get moved a bit more than Vias. They are not places that you wish to stop at (so Garmin thinks.) so they may be moved half a mile or so and this sometimes means that they get placed on a completely different road. I note that in the Tread App, it is not possible to move Shaping Points within a route. Also if you add a Via Point to a route with shaping points, all Shaping points are deleted from the route.

You used to be able to move shaping points in the Tread route list - but because they are all named 'Shaping Point' and because the display alters as soon as you pick up a shaping point to move - you have no idea where you need to drop it ! It didn't work. So Garmin's answer is to remove the facility. It may be an interim solution.

Try using a tread app to create a route a start, end and 2 via points. Then change the Via points to shaping. Both of these will be called 'Shaping Point'. That is what the XT2 expects, so I guess that is why Trip Manager does the same.

2nd question:
You can "clean up" the route with "Post process"
This centers points, which is good.
But, the basis for the points is the OSM map, which differs from the Garmin City Navigator map and therefore it is not more accurate?
I would also be interested to know how far points can be away from the roads before Garmin can no longer calculate with them.
I'm asking because I still haven't found out when and why Garmin sometimes refuses to work and I'm not sure whether I should use the option or not.

No - I cannot answer that - I'm still delving into the other behaviours. @FrankB may be able to help since he wrote it. But Frank does not have an XT2, so I have been doing a fair bit of testing, reporting back and having video calls so that he can see what is happening.

Then at the moment my last 3rd question or better said, search for a possibility.
I would like to transfer routes to the Garmin as trips so that the XT2 no longer calculates them, even when importing them. It simply takes too many minutes.
Is it conceivable that at some point in the future, calculated GPX routes, 1:1 of the existing calculation, can also be transferred to the XT2 as a trip?
It is a mystery to me, by the way, on the basis of which attributes the XT2 recognizes that the externally used maps or routing restrictions deviate from the device's internal map.

Ok - you've got me. What exactly do you mean by a 'Trip'. Garmin XT2 does not use that term.

I think that you mean that if you have created a route in Basecamp and Basecamp has calculated the route then why does the XT2 have to recalculate it ? Can it not be made so that it doesn't.

Frank's TripManager bypasses a lot of the processing that goes on when a GPx file is transferred into the XT2, imported (and processed) and then stored in a .trip file that the XT2 can use for navigation.

I think that he takes the route and builds up the trip file from scratch.

For the XT2 the process involves building up a .trip file that represents the whole route. In a GPX file, there are sections of route and each section contains hundreds of ghost point - invisible route points that when joined together with short straight line follow the line of the road precisely. Accompanying each section of route is a long hexadecimal string, only some of which is understood. (Things like speed limits, junction type, road type. All of this information comes (I think) from the map files.

It is then coded in a completely different way in the .trip file. I can get a glimpse of what it is actually storing - but getting into the detail so that this section of the .trip file is created accurately enough for the XT2 not to crash (which it will do if it reads a single character that it is not expecting). There are so many circumstances when the route is going to be re-calculated by the XT2 anyway (pressing skip, deviating from the route, coming across a road that is closed .....) that you have to wonder whether trying to decipher how the routing information is created and saved is worth the time and effort.

To get all of that code into Trip Manager is mammoth task and made even harder without an XT2. The XT1 has a similar file format, but it is not identical.

If the route is likely to be recalculated anyway - maybe it is better for it to be calculated from the route points from the outset - so that you cna check whether or not you have enough routing points. Small differences are OK. If you display a track as well as the route, the track will mark where you intended, you follow that and the XT2 will recalc again to take your movements into account.

Now that - you may suggest - is the precise set of circumstances where the RUT behaviour develops. And you would be right. Except I have tried to provoke RUT behaviour on 'saved' routes , and have yet to succeed. This is performing identical tests on both 'imported' and 'saved' routes. I could guarantee that the 'imported' route would show RUT behaviour, but the identical 'saved' route could not be made to do so.

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I have tried to get complete routes (including the ghost points which sore the precise route from Basecamp) into the Zumo XT2 (and XT), and get it not to recalculate the route. I have succeeded a few time. But with Tread connected. With XT" expecting a different profile from Basecamp's 'Motorcycle', and with slight alteration to shaping points whenever synch takes places, it is a bit of a lost cause. These routes are going to recalculate when the route is received. Or the first time that the route is synch'd.

I gave up on that ideal with the XT1. I just show my track under the route - so that I can see if the magenta line has taken a different road from the one that I intended - and I usually follow the black track. With the route set as 'Saved' (which you can do with a BC Gpx file just using the XT2 screen) - the recalculation to create a route in the direction that I am riding is quite rapid. (Maybe a couple of U turn request, but after that - it gives in).

A lot of it comes down to knowing where to place your shaping points. And that is something that I am still trying to perfect. Getting closer but not qute there yet.