Rookie questions

For any questions and tips and tricks on how to use Basecamp for PC then please post in this section.
CollingsBob
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Rookie questions

Post by CollingsBob »

kernowing very kindly pointed me towards a youtube tutorial..and I have questions

- which is the best method..to start route creation with waypoints, or by using “route creation” and that damned elastic band thing..
- I am creating a 7 day route, Do I create it as one great route, or as 7 separate routes with different names?
- I’m creating it using a Automotive Garmin that has U.K maps installed, but I’ll be using the route on a Garmin Zumo 396 after I purchase the U.K maps in a few months...are there any issues doing it this way, or would I be better off simply buying the U.K maps for the Zumo now.
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Oop North John
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Re: Rookie questions

Post by Oop North John »

First point - I use the route creation tool using two waypoints and the adjust it to suit.

Second - Do seven routes that way the arrival time / distance to go will be valid for that day.

Third - Pass.

Iris
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Re: Rookie questions

Post by Iris »

On the routing question 7 days vs 1 long trip:

I usually separate mine into daily ones.
You could do a long one, then duplicate it multiple times and break it into the sections you want.

I just think it’s easier for me to handle 1 route per day when I travel.


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jfheath
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Re: Rookie questions

Post by jfheath »

1 I assume you are using Basecamp - when you refer to the elastic band thing ?

I use waypoints to mark the key points and then use 'Create a route from the selected points' to generate the first approximate route. (nb - Waypoints refers to any point that is in the system database, including the ones you add with the flag tool) - Waypoints may a or may not be part of a route.

I create a single folder for my entire route, then a list folder for each separate day, named with a number and destination. eg 06 Ullapool.

For each day's route, I select the list folder for the day and then use the flag tool to mark the beginning, the end and any places that are potential stop-off points. Each named with the day number and something that will make sense on the Zumo display - eg one might be "06 am Coffee". So I might have 5 points for day 6. Start, end, lunch and two coffee stops.

Then highlight these 5 Waypoints - selecting them with CTRL click in the correct order, and right click and select 'Create Route from Selected Waypoints. This creates a route and puts it into the day 6 list folder. I name the route so that it too is named 06 Ullapool. So my list folder has 6 entries - 5 waypoints and a route. All start with 06.


2 One route per day - one folder for the trip, one list file per day, one route per day. I never use Trip Planner.

3 Whenever people complain that their Zumo isn't working as they think it should, it is very often related to the face that they are using a different map in the Zumo from the one that they used to plot the route. But since they are the only UK maps you have …. I have no way of knowing if they are the same. In anycase, it only needs a recalculation once the official maps are downloaded.

If you are handy with technical stuff on a PC, you could try the OSM (Open Source Maps) - navigable versions. I downloaded the UK area some time ago - they work very well on the Zumo 590 and in Basecamp - but I can't remember how I did it - except followed the instructions. Much more detailed in the built up areas than Garmin's - but they don't have the speed limit information on them. OpenStreetMap.org

CollingsBob
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Re: Rookie questions

Post by CollingsBob »

jfheath wrote:
28 Oct 2019 22:54
1 I assume you are using Basecamp - when you refer to the elastic band thing ?

I use waypoints to mark the key points and then use 'Create a route from the selected points' to generate the first approximate route. (nb - Waypoints refers to any point that is in the system database, including the ones you add with the flag tool) - Waypoints may a or may not be part of a route.

I create a single folder for my entire route, then a list folder for each separate day, named with a number and destination. eg 06 Ullapool.

For each day's route, I select the list folder for the day and then use the flag tool to mark the beginning, the end and any places that are potential stop-off points. Each named with the day number and something that will make sense on the Zumo display - eg one might be "06 am Coffee". So I might have 5 points for day 6. Start, end, lunch and two coffee stops.

Then highlight these 5 Waypoints - selecting them with CTRL click in the correct order, and right click and select 'Create Route from Selected Waypoints. This creates a route and puts it into the day 6 list folder. I name the route so that it too is named 06 Ullapool. So my list folder has 6 entries - 5 waypoints and a route. All start with 06.


2 One route per day - one folder for the trip, one list file per day, one route per day. I never use Trip Planner.

3 Whenever people complain that their Zumo isn't working as they think it should, it is very often related to the face that they are using a different map in the Zumo from the one that they used to plot the route. But since they are the only UK maps you have …. I have no way of knowing if they are the same. In anycase, it only needs a recalculation once the official maps are downloaded.

If you are handy with technical stuff on a PC, you could try the OSM (Open Source Maps) - navigable versions. I downloaded the UK area some time ago - they work very well on the Zumo 590 and in Basecamp - but I can't remember how I did it - except followed the instructions. Much more detailed in the built up areas than Garmin's - but they don't have the speed limit information on them. OpenStreetMap.org
Yes, I am using basecamp on a PC..I also have it installed on my iMac, but I prefer the version on the PC.
I’ll download the OSM and have a look - Thankyou.
I’m going to buy the UK maps for the Zumo, just to reduce chances for problems.
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rbentnail
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Re: Rookie questions

Post by rbentnail »

In the simplest way, I do NOT create a route. I've found that I'm never able to complete it by going from the start to point A to point B, etc.

What I do is to pick my start point and my destination point and the hit escape key. Double click the route name and change the name, color, etc. to be what I want it to be. Exit from that. Then I use the editing tools to INSERT points that I want my route to follow. I learned using edit tools so I never do the rubber band thing, it confuses me. If you don't see the editing tools, right click the bar section and click the box for edit features.

Now, double click the route name again. Down in the bottom left of the box, check center of map. Now click on your start point and the map zooms in all the way to that point. Use the MOVE edit tool if needed to place it EXACTLY where you want it to be. Do this with each successive point in your route. This is where you also choose each point to be shaping or via, they behave differently. I never, ever use waypoints for routing- the zumo behaves unpredictably with waypoints and they're nearly impossible to manage on the fly. At least for me anyway.

For multiday trips I make separate routes for separate days IN ADDITION TO one long all-encompassing route, it doesn't have to be an either/or thing. The long one is for discussion only, I never route with it. The daily routes I number sequentially or use the day of the week, as the old nuvi and current zumo do not use alpha-numeric sorting so names are useless to keep track of the order.

The http://www.newenglandriders.org/GPS/GPS.htm tutorial is the best I've found for learning the basics of Base Camp.

If you don't have the zumo now, I highly recommend you get it and begin using it. Coming from older Garmins, the zumo behaves differently and you need to learn that now by using it.
Russ B. Zumo 595,
2007 Yamaha FJR1300A, 128k and counting

jfheath
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Re: Rookie questions

Post by jfheath »

Thanks @rbentnail. Useful stuff.
Just a note about the comment below - hopefully to help with any confusion:
rbentnail wrote:
29 Oct 2019 14:05
This is where you also choose each point to be shaping or via, they behave differently. I never, ever use waypoints for routing- the zumo behaves unpredictably with waypoints and they're nearly impossible to manage on the fly. At least for me anyway.
'Waypoints' is a term used to refer to locations that are stored in the database. These can be the thousands of locations that are provided with the map, or they can be the points that you have dropped onto the map. Double click on a waypoint and it will open up a dialogue box that includes such info as address and phone number.

That definition out of the way, when using the rubber band tool to drop a point onto the map, it may drop onto an unmarked location in which case it is given a name based on the road number, or it may be near to an invisible location that is already defined as a waypoint in the database - in which case it will jump to it - rather than to where you intended to drop the route point. This feature can be a pain, but if you do as you suggested and turn on the centre on map feature (as you should as a final check), any of these points can be moved, and they can also be changed in bulk from Via to Shaping (Alert / do not alert).

Now - by default, anything deemed to be an existing waypoint is automatically placed on the route as a Via Point. Anything that is a new route point that is named on the fly by Basecamp defaults to being a shaping point. But as a matter of course, once the route is finished it makes sense to decide which ones you want as Vias.

Shaping points and Via points do the same job. They guarantee that the route that you follow on the satnav will pass through them.

Briefly - imagine you have placed a point, and it lands accidentally a few hundred metres up a side road. The route has you going up the side road, doing a u turn and then returning to the road that you were on.

A Via point will insist that you visit that errant point. You choose to ignore the instructions, but it will forever try to get you to go back to it. And if you have 'allow U turns turned off, it will lull you into a false sense of security. 3 miles up the road, it will find a side road into housing estate and get you to ride round it so that you can go back to visit that missed via point.

A Shaping Point - The Zumo will also navigate you a few hundred metres up the side road to visit the point. But you ignore it and continue on the magenta route. The satnav continues navigating you to the next route point - just as if you had followed its instructions. The same happens if the point is up a side road, and the route it has plotted brings you back onto the main road a mile or two further on. The satnav will nag you to go back, but as soon as you join the magenta route beyond the shaping point it continues as before.

In the latter case however, the satnav may recalculate the route back to the shaping point. But that's OK - it doesn't recalculate the route beyond the shaping point, and since you haven't visited it yet, the original route beyond the shaping point will remain intact.

All of this is documented and explained with screen shots and examples in a document I produced a couple of years ago - here. Download the pdf in Post#1. There are also links to a few short videos specifically to do with creating routes that get around the little quirks that crop up with the later Zumos that have Trip Planner.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=521

CollingsBob
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Re: Rookie questions

Post by CollingsBob »

Amazing help...Thanks. I have the Zumo 396, in the next few days I’ll get the U.K maps installed..then I’ll discard the waypoints and start again..
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rbentnail
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Re: Rookie questions

Post by rbentnail »

jfheath wrote:
29 Oct 2019 17:44
Thanks @rbentnail. Useful stuff.
Just a note about the comment below - hopefully to help with any confusion:
rbentnail wrote:
29 Oct 2019 14:05
This is where you also choose each point to be shaping or via, they behave differently. I never, ever use waypoints for routing- the zumo behaves unpredictably with waypoints and they're nearly impossible to manage on the fly. At least for me anyway.
'Waypoints' is a term used to refer to locations that are stored in the database. These can be the thousands of locations that are provided with the map, or they can be the points that you have dropped onto the map. Double click on a waypoint and it will open up a dialogue box that includes such info as address and phone number.

That definition out of the way, when using the rubber band tool to drop a point onto the map, it may drop onto an unmarked location in which case it is given a name based on the road number, or it may be near to an invisible location that is already defined as a waypoint in the database - in which case it will jump to it - rather than to where you intended to drop the route point. This feature can be a pain, but if you do as you suggested and turn on the centre on map feature (as you should as a final check), any of these points can be moved, and they can also be changed in bulk from Via to Shaping (Alert / do not alert).

Now - by default, anything deemed to be an existing waypoint is automatically placed on the route as a Via Point. Anything that is a new route point that is named on the fly by Basecamp defaults to being a shaping point. But as a matter of course, once the route is finished it makes sense to decide which ones you want as Vias.

Shaping points and Via points do the same job. They guarantee that the route that you follow on the satnav will pass through them.

Briefly - imagine you have placed a point, and it lands accidentally a few hundred metres up a side road. The route has you going up the side road, doing a u turn and then returning to the road that you were on.

A Via point will insist that you visit that errant point. You choose to ignore the instructions, but it will forever try to get you to go back to it. And if you have 'allow U turns turned off, it will lull you into a false sense of security. 3 miles up the road, it will find a side road into housing estate and get you to ride round it so that you can go back to visit that missed via point.

A Shaping Point - The Zumo will also navigate you a few hundred metres up the side road to visit the point. But you ignore it and continue on the magenta route. The satnav continues navigating you to the next route point - just as if you had followed its instructions. The same happens if the point is up a side road, and the route it has plotted brings you back onto the main road a mile or two further on. The satnav will nag you to go back, but as soon as you join the magenta route beyond the shaping point it continues as before.

In the latter case however, the satnav may recalculate the route back to the shaping point. But that's OK - it doesn't recalculate the route beyond the shaping point, and since you haven't visited it yet, the original route beyond the shaping point will remain intact.

All of this is documented and explained with screen shots and examples in a document I produced a couple of years ago - here. Download the pdf in Post#1. There are also links to a few short videos specifically to do with creating routes that get around the little quirks that crop up with the later Zumos that have Trip Planner.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=521
To clarify what I said, I do not CREATE waypoints to make a route. I see some guys do this- they click the waypoint making icon (the flag-looking tool) and plop down new waypoint after new waypoint to preface a route then use the route tool to connect the new waypoints. It's been my experience that both the nuvi and the zumo 595 do not behave the same as simply picking a point on a route as a via or shaping point. The trip will be ruined b/c the rider will constantly be told to turn around or be sent off into the North American wilderness to ride a goat pasture and ford a river.

I've read all your postings and attachments, I've watched all your videos. I do disagree with some of what you say but I have a different model and my frustrations at the time of the device screw up may have clouded my judgement. Suffice it to say that most of my frustrations come from "the little quirks" that there's really no logical explanation for, i.e., if the device behaved more intuitively or even consistently. I make routes the same way every time (via point start & finish, all shaping points in between). Yet the 595 behaves differently on the road. Sometimes it will recalculate if I go off route (recalculate ALWAYS on auto), sometimes it will ask if I want to skip, sometimes it tries unmercilessly to send me back to a point. There are many other "quirks" of the unit that have nearly driven me to sell it and go back to the early 1970's and use paper maps. I do BTW ALWAYS have a paper map in the saddlebag, that's how unreliable I find the 595 to be.
Russ B. Zumo 595,
2007 Yamaha FJR1300A, 128k and counting

jfheath
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Re: Rookie questions

Post by jfheath »

I got to the same point with my 590 - ie on the point of throwing it away. But instead decided to work out exactly what it was doing. And i tested and retested everything that i have documented.

I would be most interested in the things you disagree with. I am not infallible - I may have missed something. Maybe another thread or private message.

There's one thing you mention about the 595 which i didn't know. You say it asks if you want to skip. The 590 doesnt ask. It will always try to go back to a missed shaping point - but it will skip the shaping point anyway.if you ignore the nagging and pick up the magenta route that is plotted after the shaping point. Via points continue to nag on the 590 until you manually tap the skip button.

If you have traffictrends turned on, the 590 will reroute you no matter what, if it finds a road less likely to be congested at the time of day and day of week. Historic traffic data is stored with the map. It can be a real pain.
Last edited by jfheath on 01 Nov 2019 05:11, edited 1 time in total.

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