Introducing TripManager

[Treve]

Hi
I am up to learn if and how I may have use of TripManager (TM)
- Use Win 11
- Have XT2
- Don´t use Tread-app at al
- Use Basecamp (BC) as my planing tool
- I have TM instaled

I have connect XT2 to the PC. Can se it in BC, TM, GE. I can se the hole structur in XT2 in TM.

What confuses me is the fact that in TM>/ "Trips" thera are a lot "Trips" that I can´t se when I lock for them in XT2. In TM I can se nine (9) trips.

For the moment ther are only one route in the in XT2 sorted in to one Collection. That one is importet from SD-card AND copyed and renamed as I learned from "jfheath" and have checkmark as fixed.

I can se that one with its unic name in TM/"Trips" "Trip info" green header. Al the other 8 "trips have only a 10-digit name and are not visible in TX2. They are not posible to import from "internal" store. The don´t exist there when I look fore them in TX2.

What and were are these 8 "trips"? They ar al checkmarked as fixed but don´t exist when I look in TX2.

Curius Treve

[FrankB]

Hi Curius Treve

They are not posible to import from "internal" store.

Trip files can not, and certainly dont need to, be imported. You can only import GPX files, as far as I know.

What and were are these 8 "trips"? They ar al checkmarked as fixed but don´t exist when I look in TX2.

The fact that their names are all a '10 digit number' makes it very unlikely that TripManager created them. It could be that they were transfered from your hard-drive to internal storage on the XT2, but originated from an other source.

The trip files for the XT2 and the XT are NOT compatible. That means that if you have an existing trip file from an XT and transfer it to an XT2 it will not work. There can be more reasons why they are not visible, but that is my initial thought.

The preferred (and tested) way of creating trip files on the XT and XT2 with TripManager is to select a GPX file created by BC, or MRA, or an other routeplanner, and use the 'Transfer to Device' button.

If you can post one of the trip files not showing, and the one that is showing, I can have a look if they are technically correct. I can not test if they show up on an XT2, simply because I dont have an XT2.

Frank

[Treve]

Hi FrankB
I tryed add two files to you. But "Add files" says that .trip-files is invalid and can´t be add?!
I went to "Internal"/#.System"/"Trip" and there al nine .trip are. Only one is visible in TX2. When I look at them in TM - al of them are trips/routes that I have travelt lots of times. I think I have hade them al as routes but deletid them some times. It seams to be some form of "goast"trips. Most of them, mabe al, made with TX2 routplaner. Looked upon when made but not saved and not used.

But the are al in catalog "Trip"

"Trips" and "Routs" confuses me a little. I have never learned the different - if there are.

Treve

[FrankB]

Hi FrankB
I tryed add two files to you. But "Add files" says that .trip-files is invalid and can´t be add?!

True. The zumo forums doesnt allow .trip files. What you need to do is create a zip file and add the trips in the zip file. The zip file can be added.

"Trips" and "Routs" confuses me a little. I have never learned the different - if there are.

I use the term 'Routes' for BaseCamp. When transferred to the XT/XT2 they are imported in the Trip Planner. Then I use the term 'Trips'
Here is a page to get you started: https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/app.php/ZXT-P04

The XT2 does not (always) clean up the Trips, or sometimes a deleted Trip reappears. In this tread you can read more, and some advice how to delete them properly: https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=3263

Frank

[jfheath]

"Trips" and "Routs" confuses me a little. I have never learned the different - if there are.

The terms 'Trip' and 'Route' seem to confuse Garmin too.
Basically, they are the same thing - although that wasn't always the case. But I doubt if anyone on these forums is going to be confused if you use the term trip or route.

I always used to call them routes, no matter what the Zumo called them. (Pronounced 'roots' here in the UK).
Then I thought - since I'm a stickler for using the correct terms - like waypoints, shaping points, via points - I really ought to use the term that Garmin uses. So I started using the term 'Trip'.

Then the XT2 came out. The XT2 doesn't use the word 'Trip' on its menus. It has switched to using 'Route':
"Route Planner - on the main screen.
"Routes" in the Apps.
"Routes in the Collections"
"Convert to Route" as an option in the track options.

The earlier zumos with 'Trip Planner' (sic) (eg the 590, 595 XT) all use 'Trip' in exactly the same locations that the XT2 uses the term 'Route'.

Mapsource, an earlier route planner for Garmin devices before the Zumo 590 came out - uses the term 'Route' and never mentions 'Trip'.

In Basecamp you can create a 'New Route' - But you can also create a 'New Trip' in Basecamp's 'Trip Planner' menu. Trip planner in Basecamp seems to be set up to deal with multi-day tours.
By default, when you start a new copy of Basecamp, it seems to lead you into the Trip Planner - which may be why so many people dislike BC. I love BC, but Trip Planner ? No way.


With the XT2 they seem to be making an effort to sort out their terminology. So they use Route now, not Trip; They use 'Waypoints' and not 'Saved' or 'Favourites'. These two terms are now consistent with the terms used in the global standard GPX files:
<wpt> = Waypoint
<rte> = Route
<rtept> = RoutePoint

But still - in the hidden system menu is a relic that they cannot change. A folder called 'Trips'. In it is a single file for each and every trip/route that is available to the zumo XT1 or XT2. And it is this area that TripManager operates - creating and editing trip files for routes.

Use whichever term you want. We will understand. And if anyone uses the term 'Route' where you have used the term 'Trip' - they are not correcting you - they are just using the term with which they are familiar.

[smfollen]

@Treve In case it helps, after struggling to figure out the correct terms myself, I put together a glossary. I am no expert on the subject, but you can find a link to what I came up with here https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/viewto ... 308#p22308.

Per the gpx standards (which Garmin contributed to), .gpx files can contain "routes", as long with waypoints, tracks, etc., but not "trips".

Internally, the zumo XT and XT2 devices store routes in .trip files. @FrankB gave us Trip Manager, a wonderful tool, which interacts with those .trip files ... as well as .gpx files.

As @jfheath and others have pointed out here, even Garmin can not keep the terms sorted out.

[Peobody]

Questions: TripManager only has the option of creating tracks with waypoints. I have not used this because I don't think I want waypoints in my tracks, I just want to shown them on the map in order to see recalc deviations.
What is the purpose of including waypoints in tracks?
Will waypoints in a track shown on the map clutter the map during navigation? I still create tracks in Basecamp and manually transfer them to my XT due to this concern.

[smfollen]

@Peobody I assume you are referring to the "Track (Including Way points)" checkbox in the dialog box that comes up after clicking the "Additional files" button. The generated waypoints are not actually in the track, they are included in the generated .gpx file. A .gpx file can contain any combination of waypoints, routes (made up of route points - via and shaping). and tracks (made up of track points). When importing a .gpx file into the zumo, you have the option of selecting any, or all, of the content of that gpx file. In other words, if an imported .gpx file contains waypoints and a track, you can import just the track, just the waypoints, or both.

This is true for .gpx files generated by Trip Manager, Basecamp, or any other tools that writes .gpx files.

There are separate options on the zumos to display or hide various content. As one example, on the XT2, under Map Display, the Waypoint Decluttering checkbox "Hides waypoints at high zoom levels".

[FrankB]

Questions: TripManager only has the option of creating tracks with waypoints. I have not used this because I don't think I want waypoints in my tracks, I just want to shown them on the map in order to see recalc deviations.

Personal taste. I use very little Waypoints. Usually only for places where I really need to be like hotels. So they dont bother me.

What is the purpose of including waypoints in tracks?

Suppose you're creating a trip from track, then you dont have a Via-Point to restart the trip should you be forced to deviate. Saving the Via points as Way points will give you the option to navigate back to the track using those Way points.

@Peobody
Question: If I would make the 'including waypoints' when creating tracks optional, would that help you? I dont think it would be a great deal of work for me.

[jfheath]

Question: If I would make the 'including waypoints' when creating tracks optional, would that help you? I dont think it would be a great deal of work for me.

I think that would be better - certainly for me. I've still not got round to testing what I wanted to - which was to work out why I had three copies of each of my waypoints, all with different number added at the end.

I think it might have been to do with the fact that I deleted routes by using the Trip manager to delete the trip files. But the Zumo XT2 put them back again - but now the trips had a UUID number. I think that may have recreated the waypoints, but found that the same waypoints already existed, so it added numbers to then end. I know I did that twice which might explain why I had three copies of the same waypoints.

It was very noticeable - because I had sent tracks to the XT2 and that had created the waypoints that had already been declared.
Because I was about to set off to Scotland, I cleared everything out, made the trip files, but sent the tracks as GPX files from Basecamp.

Sorry - I've still got to check out that behaviour to pin it down to what I think it is (or find something else to pin it on ). I got side tracked on a theory as to why some route show up with a red pin icon, and most have a blue !!