XT2 Around Spain

[Regain]

My first major European tour with the XT2. I use my XT2 fully connected to Tread as Garmin intended with synchronisation enabled. My planning tool is My-Route-app both at home as a web page and on the go via the app.

Before travel, my routes were carefully checked for waypoint (all varieties) placement and then imported to Tread to test they would create routes that were 'liked'. Then everything was deleted from Tread. My MRA routes were then saved as GPX 1.1 (route, track, POI) to a folder on my PC laptop and dragged & dropped to a GPX folder on the XT2 SD card. They were then all tested to check they imported and created a good route in the XT2. I then deleted them all from the SD card and made sure all GPX entries in the XT2 were deleted. Then I dragged & dropped them in again so that I could import one route at a time when on tour. Why all that palaver (which is fairly quick)? I've found that with collections and the mysterious reappearance of deleted routes within the XT2, it is far tidier and less confusing that way.

When importing, I put the route in a new collection labeled as the day of the week which becomes visible as a collection. I then have the magenta route with the widest red (I like that colour best on the XT2) track underneath. In all cases, bar one, it worked perfectly. The bar one was due to the XT2 being desperate to put us on a highway that ran alongside the minor road I'd selected. I ran with the Track but despite running a copy of the route as per our friendly expert @jfheath, it produced RUT behaviour in order to get us on that highway. I eventually had to stop the route and open it again with CEP once away from the highway. Since arriving home, I've dabbled with the route a little more. Yes, a couple more shaping points fixed it so my error when checking the route before departure.

I nearly always started the route via CEP, though this can create confusion with other riders on much older Zumos if it doesn't route via the planned start (first Via) point. They would then need to restart their route, once on the track to the 'end' point. No problem really.

Make sure all your riding buddies also have all your hotels programmed in as waypoints in case of separation (intended or otherwise). It's always that final run in through a town or city where a dozen of you can get split up! Sucked enough eggs yet?

At the end of each day, I deleted the route, track and collection from the XT2 and imported the next day's route as above. The occasional reappearance of a deleted route but easy to deal with.

One great thing that happened; despite checking for road closures on Google maps prior to setting off - (which is another superb thing I found out how to do on these pages with imported MRA routes), inevitably there were other closures not published. The XT2 simply guided us round them and back onto the route. I keep re-calculation on automatic but you can use prompted if preferred.

Planning routes away from home. I love MRA and the later Zumos for this as we usually have spare days for either a day off the bike or a local rideout. I've found it a little less precise due to the limitations of either my iPhone or tablet with waypoint placement. Sometimes no problem but occasionally the XT2 does not calculate the route. You can either fiddle around a bit more with creating the route on MRA but if you are tired or just can't be bothered, convert the track to a route either in Tread or on the XT2. Crucially, also have the original track displayed so that if you wander off the intended route, you can get back to it. I'm still not 100% sure whether leaving auto-recalculate on or not is the best idea. More testing is required there.

I hope all this helps someone to make their XT2 work as they would like it to. I find the increased size and screen resolution much better, especially in the bright sunshine or later in the day when a little wearier. It pairs seamlessly with my Cardo Edge and iPhone. If you stop getting phone notifications (I only allow texts anyway otherwise you end up with pings from everywhere - and turn off audible pings from WhatsApp on your phone!), you may need to pair your Tread app to XT2 again. I can find no other way of doing this than deleting the app and reinstalling. I'm open to other ideas though. Apple Music works perfectly with the XT2 so you can select anything within it without having to set it running first. It's only for the longer straighter routes in my case which isn't often. I also have a ton of music on the SD card which works great too.

If I think of anything else I learned, I'll edit the post and add.

Finally, remember it's a navaid and not your routemaster. And - ALWAYS remember to have your track visible.

[jfheath]

Many thanks for your detailed observations @Regain. It is really useful to be able to observe what other people are doing and how well (or otherwise) the satnav is behaving for them.

I'd like to follow up on a few comments if I may.

The bar one was due to the XT2 being desperate to put us on a highway that ran alongside the minor road I'd selected. I ran with the Track but despite running a copy of the route as per our friendly expert @jfheath, it produced RUT behaviour in order to get us on that highway. I eventually had to stop the route and open it again with CEP once away from the highway.

I suspect that this was not RUT behaviour - it sounds like the situation that you get when the original route has been modified by the Tread App itself - ie routes are altered to follow the faster roads and shaping points are moved from their original location onto Tread's New Route.

There is a way that you can determine whether or not you have experienced RUT behaviour - if you allow the Zumo to automatically record your riding. The Track Log will be fragmented into tiny sections. Each break in the log will correspond to when the XT2 ussued a command to perform a U Turn. Here is an example:

Broken Track Log Example.png (49.39 KiB) Viewed 818 times

My plotted route was to travel from Invergarry west-ish along the A87 and then off the left hand side of the page. In fact, I needed petrol and knew that the only place was in Fort Augustus - so I continued NW along the A82. The satnave was asking me to turn back, and each time it did so, it produced a break in the automatically recorded log file. At Fort Augustus, the distance to turn back (A82 SW then A87) is exactly the same as it is to continue NE to Invermoriston and then take the A887. Approx 24 miles. After Invermoriston it took much longer to calculate the route back to Fort Augustus, Invergarry and the A87 - to reach the point where we were heading anyway - where the A87 meets the A887. Nevertheless it continues demanding U turns, and gives up about 4.5 miles from that point. Up to that point it was demanding that I turn back - 37.5 miles.

That is RUT behaviour. You can only begin to suspect it when you have reached the tipping point - the point where if you start a route and head to the destination the Zumo will plot one way, and if you go back a mile, it will plot the other way.
But the clincher for me is this track log - it has only ever got fragemented like this during RUT behaviour, and I have proved to myself beyond reasonable doubt that the break in the track correspond with the period when it is recalculating the route.

Track logs are to be found in Internal Storage/GPX/ CurrentTRackLog.gpx and in the Archive folder. It keeps them for about 6 months.

I'd be curious to know whether or not your track log for that date, time and location had become fragemented.

If you record a track manually by selecting Track Recorded on the XT2 main screen - that log never gets fragmented.
If you want to know more about how to use these - drop me a PM or start a new thread.

I nearly always started the route via CEP, though this can create confusion with other riders on much older Zumos if it doesn't route via the planned start (first Via) point. They would then need to restart their route, once on the track to the 'end' point. No problem really.

Personally I still treat CEP with a healthy amount of suspicion, and never use it unless I am forced to. If I am leading a group of riders, I always put the via point for the start and coffee stops on the road that I will be taking when we set off. Sometimes it will be a mile up the road, often more.
That way, when everyone sets off, they select the start point and the Zumo takes them to it and automatically continues navigation of my route from there. (That is true for all Zumos with the Trip Planner app - the 590/390 onwards. )

Make sure all your riding buddies also have all your hotels programmed in as waypoints in case of separation (intended or otherwise). It's always that final run in through a town or city where a dozen of you can get split up! Sucked enough eggs yet?

Entirely agree - providing that they are genuine Garmin Waypoints. ie if you select 'Where To->Waypoints' they appear in the list.

You mention MRA a few times and they do not create Garmin Waypoints from the shaping and via points that you use to create a route. They refer to every route point as a waypoint - which has resulted in a lot of confusion with members of the forums. Since we are a Zumo User Forum, I feel duty bound to use Garmin's terminology - especially as it is consistent with the GPX file format standard.

At the end of each day, I deleted the route, track and collection from the XT2 and imported the next day's route as above. The occasional reappearance of a deleted route but easy to deal with.

If you delete data from your XT2 then you have to make sure that it has had time to synch with the Tread Database. Otherwise it will exist on the datbase and not on the XT2. If the last known action is to transfer data from the Tread database (it doesn't know that you deleted it on the XT2, 'cos it didn't synch) then synch process will put it back again.

One great thing that happened; despite checking for road closures on Google maps prior to setting off - (which is another superb thing I found out how to do on these pages with imported MRA routes), inevitably there were other closures not published. The XT2 simply guided us round them and back onto the route. I keep re-calculation on automatic but you can use prompted if preferred.

Was this as a result of the Tread App discovering about the closure and re-routing accordingly ? If so, that is good. I find this feature sometimes useful, often annoying, and I tend not to believe it. Bu tthe XT2 gives you no choice. If it gets a message indicating a road is closed - it re-routes, no matter what. I often find that a closure is in a different part of the same road, or it is a night time only closure and that it has re-routed me for no reason. On long tours in the UK, I tend to take a look at the AA pages where they have upto date information on road works, traffic and road closures. They tend to be reasonably accurate.

Planning routes away from home. I love MRA and the later Zumos for this as we usually have spare days for either a day off the bike or a local rideout. I've found it a little less precise due to the limitations of either my iPhone or tablet with waypoint placement. Sometimes no problem but occasionally the XT2 does not calculate the route. You can either fiddle around a bit more with creating the route on MRA but if you are tired or just can't be bothered, convert the track to a route either in Tread or on the XT2. Crucially, also have the original track displayed so that if you wander off the intended route, you can get back to it. I'm still not 100% sure whether leaving auto-recalculate on or not is the best idea. More testing is required there.

I like to have autorecalc on because it gives me a clue as to what the Zumo is doing.
Certainly having a track visible is a good standby. Load the track, say go. No instructions, just a line on the map and a dotted straight line pointing to the closest point on the original track should you have to deviate. Up to you to find roads to get you there. If you haven't tried this technique, it is well worth a look. I was doubtful - why would you want to do that ? - But it is actually quite relaxing. Informative, without being intrusive. Like having a paper map always open with a pointer as to where you are now.

If you stop getting phone notifications (I only allow texts anyway otherwise you end up with pings from everywhere - and turn off audible pings from WhatsApp on your phone!), you may need to pair your Tread app to XT2 again. I can find no other way of doing this than deleting the app and reinstalling. I'm open to other ideas though. Apple Music works perfectly with the XT2 so you can select anything within it without having to set it running first. It's only for the longer straighter routes in my case which isn't often. I also have a ton of music on the SD card which works great too.

I don't bother with phone music. Spotify stopped working properly ages ago, and I find that streamed BT music gets fragmented the longer you ride with it. I have music on the SD card if I want it - but I find it takes my concentration away from the road - or I am concentrating hard anyway and never actually hear the music.

Messages from phone are usually restricted to text messages and phone calls. No one texts me or calls me unless it is important. Partly because I'm not glued to it like most people that I nearly knock over. Most of the day, I don't know where my phone is. That's a point, Where is it ? I've not seen it since last night.

I reported in another thread that the XT seems to lose a connection with the headset every now and then, and instructions stop coming through. I find that reaching over the back and turning the XT off and then again to turn it on - it takes a couple of minutes , but it reboots and reconnects everything. I've never had to do that with the XT. But whent he sound comes back on - there is a queue of navigation messages waiting to be sent to the headset and it spends the next five minutes playing these one after the other.

Finally, remember it's a navaid and not your routemaster. And - ALWAYS remember to have your track visible.

You mentioned that you set the track to Widest Red. I believe that also sets the magenta route to be the same width.
Most of the time, the route obscures the track which is the same width underneath. You can make some simple edits to the theme file to make the track wider than the route. I use black for tracks, and I can see the black track under the magenta route as a black outine either side of the route.

Like this:

88725.png (484.21 KiB) Viewed 818 times

If you want to know how to do this - it just needs a text editor and a bit of know how - so just ask.

[Regain]

Thanks for the response. 100% it was the XT2 routing me onto the highway. I’ve kept Tread out of the loop at home and sure enough, same result. Unfortunately I’ve deleted everything now so can’t do as requested. More shaping points has cured it, even with Tread sync.

I also put the start point some way up the road but things change. We may decide to head somewhere else first, for fuel or whatever and then CEP works a treat even if missing the planned start point which might then be a major detour to go via. Or a road closure! We discussed CEP/Start Point on another thread and both can work I think.

I’m relatively happy now with the deleted route reoccurrence. I try to get my deletes in the correct sequence but occasionally the XT2 brings me back a little present. It doesn’t happen often but with a clean database in the XT2, much easier to deal with without confusion.

Point taken with waypoints but I’ve been using the terminology for over 40 years in various disciplines so a hard habit to break. They are all technically waypoints but you’re right in regards Garmin. I rarely use via points and stick to shaping.

The road closure incidents were a pleasant surprise as previously I’ve had the whole route explode and try to take me miles off my intended track in order to deliver me to the end point (or next via point after the closure). Give it a try to see if it works for you.

Spotify was also not good for me so I swapped to Apple Music which seems to blend in perfectly with the XT2 menu. It’s not used an awful lot by me but good for boring bits.

What else? I tried black but prefer red. Just me and my eyes but I’m happy with it. If the route deviates from the track, red really stands out - and if I’m ever unsure that the track is underneath when highly zoomed in, I just double click the - zoom and it shows really well. It’s not so good on the XT which my friend has and black is definitely best on that.

Yes, using just the track as a map reading line is also good, much better than glancing down at a map on your tank bag like we used to do. Doesn’t need folding correctly either. I have done it, mainly in the early days when my routes were going pear-shaped .

I’ll keep reporting but I was very happy with its performance.

[Regain]

@jfheath, I’ve no doubt whatsoever that Tread can and does move shaping points as I’ve had it happen. In this instance though, a mere planning and checking error. I’m really not sure why Garmin hasn’t made Tread into a proper web & app based planning tool and why they can’t fix the bugs. Usually, when I have checked properly, another shaping point or two forces the route to go where I want it to, either on Tread or the XT2.

I did find it frustrating that the route wouldn’t snap back onto my track despite running a copy. The Zumo simply wouldn’t let go of the highway and asked me to repeatedly u-turn. Not a massive problem as it was only a couple of miles and an easy fix. Is that not RUT? Sorry I can’t provide track segments.

One other thing I’ve remembered from past forays is that if the route does corrupt, a delete and re-import can fix it. Obviously you then have to enter the route with CEP.

Like you, I do need to know the tech and how it works. I’ve not gone as far as modifying software etc. but not completely closed to the idea.

[jfheath]

I did find it frustrating that the route wouldn’t snap back onto my track despite running a copy. The Zumo simply wouldn’t let go of the highway and asked me to repeatedly u-turn. Not a massive problem as it was only a couple of miles and an easy fix. Is that not RUT? Sorry I can’t provide track segments.

I've had situations like that, that have turned out not to be RUT. It has just been that from where you are, going back is the 'best' way to get to the next route point - according to its algorithm - which we know prefers faster roads.

A single point on a side road to avoid going back to a fast road will not work with the XT 2. Two points spaced at 1/3 intervals often does the trick.

It can be difficult to prove RUT behaviour. But the broken track log is a very good pointer.

I know how to force it to happen. So I can use that to prove that our solution prevents it. I have been unable to make a recalculated saved route display RUT behaviour when recalculated imported route will always display it


app.php/ZXT-P105. That whole section is to do with RUT



Having the track logs is a much easier proof.