setting route preferences inside each planned trip

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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by rbentnail »

Here's what I do all the time, with virtually every route:

I use Base Camp to make my route. Double click the route name for the box to rename, set alerts for points, change color, etc. In that same box, up top, click the Route Options tab. There, by ticking Customize Route Options, you can set individual avoidances, etc just for that route. Note the symbol next to the route name changes. It didn't used to but now seems to, this same symbol stays with the route, as do the custom settings, when the route is transferred. Then transfer the route to the zumo. You can do the same thing for routes already on your device using Base Camp with your XT connected to the computer.

This may not set all preferences but it does do some. Be aware that the route may change slightly when you change preferences and avoidances so check your route again before and after.
Russ B. Zumo 595 & XT
2007 & 2013 USA Yamaha FJR1300A
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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by JeanDuVar »

sussamb wrote: 18 Oct 2023 20:11 You can try making the suggestion to Garmin but as BaseCamp development stopped years ago I don't see any hope for improvement
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/forms/ideas/
I spent many years in contact with the BaseCamp development team and they were all extremely sad when Garmin closed them down. BaseCamp now 'is what it is'
I have been through so many troubles with GBC and my mac, that I now tend not to use it so much. I installed W10 on the mac, and had some sessions of GBC... but I am still not plenty satisfied of the results on the XT, once seated on the bike and ready to go.
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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by JeanDuVar »

rbentnail wrote: 19 Oct 2023 02:40 Here's what I do all the time, with virtually every route:
This may not set all preferences but it does do some. Be aware that the route may change slightly when you change preferences and avoidances so check your route again before and after.
I hear you. And this is the "tricky" point, we have to check before and after... or, indeed, avoid any recalculation. I assume you are under Windows...
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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by rbentnail »

JeanDuVar wrote: 19 Oct 2023 08:00
rbentnail wrote: 19 Oct 2023 02:40 Here's what I do all the time, with virtually every route:
This may not set all preferences but it does do some. Be aware that the route may change slightly when you change preferences and avoidances so check your route again before and after.
I hear you. And this is the "tricky" point, we have to check before and after... or, indeed, avoid any recalculation. I assume you are under Windows...
I am.
Russ B. Zumo 595 & XT
2007 & 2013 USA Yamaha FJR1300A
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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by jfheath »

electro_handyman wrote: 18 Oct 2023 22:10 Hasn't Garmin also recently announced that they have stopped further software development for the XT?
I saw that someone reported that they had been told by one of the support staff ......

That is (at least) third hand information - which isn't quite the same thing as a Garmin announcement - and it has been proved to be incorrect by the release of version 6.60 of the system software.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by jfheath »

rbentnail wrote: 19 Oct 2023 02:40
I use Base Camp to make my route. Double click the route name for the box to rename, set alerts for points, change color, etc. In that same box, up top, click the Route Options tab. There, by ticking Customize Route Options, you can set individual avoidances, etc just for that route. Note the symbol next to the route name changes. It didn't used to but now seems to, this same symbol stays with the route, as do the custom settings, when the route is transferred. Then transfer the route to the zumo. You can do the same thing for routes already on your device using Base Camp with your XT connected to the computer.

This may not set all preferences but it does do some. Be aware that the route may change slightly when you change preferences and avoidances so check your route again before and after.
Using Custom Route Options is excellent in Basecamp for experimenting with option chanegs - as Basecamp calculates them. The reason is that with no other routes using the same settings, the changes are shown on the map immediately you tick/untick an option.

I use it a lot.

However, what @rbentnail describes isn't correct - sorry Russ, I am not having a go at you, and I normally wouldn't quote - but I know that a lot of people think the same thing. Certainly I did at one time.

Point by point:
1. Custom as a profile is not recognised by any of the Zumos that I have worked with - 550, 660, 590, 595, XT. When the Zumo receives the route, it assumes that you meant motorcycle and uses that. The only profile names that the Zumo recognises are Motorcycling, Driving and Direct. Anything else, it uses Motorcycling.

2. The only other setting in Basecamp that is transferred to the Zumo is the routing preference. Faster Time, Shorter Distance. In the XT and 595 Curvy Roads is not recognised - I cannot remember about the earlier models. The reason for this is that those units have a more advanced Curvy Roads feature with a 4 point scale - which Basecamp does not know about. If anything other that Faster Time or Shorter distance is set in the Basecamp route, the Zumo uses Faster Time as its default.

No other routing information in Basecamp preferences is sent to the Zumo. If you set it, it never appears in the GPX file - the Zumo never sees it.

3. However, Basecamp does transfer the route exactly as it appears in Basecamp. Exactly. The GPX file it sends is massive and contains all of the information that it needs to plot exactly the same route that it plotted on the Basecamp screen. Thousands of invisible route points. (To make sure that these are not stripped out, you have to untick the options in Edit/Options/Device Transfer. You also have to have the identical map in Basecamp as you do in the Zumo.)

So when the Zumo receives a route from Basecamp - it avoids all of the things that you told the route to avoid when it was created in Basecamp. That is irresepctive of the Zumo settings. It does this becasue it retains the original Basecamp route, and it doesn't (shouldn't) recalcuate it.

The settings in the Zumo are there in case the Zumo is forced to recaclulate the route. Eg if maps are different, if skip is pressed, if you you detour and automatic recalculation is allowed, if traffic is allowed to change the route. In those circumstances, Basecamp's original route is lost and the XT calculates a new route - using the settings that are in the Zumo. It makes sense then to set some of the avoidances to be the same as you used in Basecamp.

Some information is transferred with the route. The vehicle/profile - The XT recognises just 3 profiles. Driving, Motorcycle, Direct.
Anything else, the Zumo assumes that you meant to use Motorcyle. So a Custom route will use its 'Motorcycle' settings by default.
Also the routing preferences of Faster Time, Shorter Distance is transferred. Anything other than these, the Zumo will assume you meant Faster Time.

But no other routing information (eg avoidances) is sent with the route.

This means - that any recalculation of the route may result in a significantly different line being drawn on the map - especially given that for the XT 'Faster Time' seems to mean head for the nearest main road heading in roughly the right diection.

4. Your route should not recalculate when the Zumo receives it. It will do something for a few seconds, and it says 'Calculating ...', but a route recalculation takes much more than a few seconds. More like 20-30 or longer. If this happens, a common reason ist that an old route has been loaded in Basecamp - one that was created with an earlier map - and that has been transferred. It is good practice to always check the map being used in Basecamp and re-calculate your routes before you send them to the Zumo - just so that the Zumo doesn't recalculate them.

5. Changing the vehicle or any of the route preferences in the Zumos will always force a recalculation of the entire route. This means that the original route that Basecamp created is lost completely, and what you are left with is what is set in the Zumo. It make sense to try to reproduce the avoidance settings that you have in Basecamp - eg toll roads, unmade roads as avoidances. But set these before you transfer the route. The XT recognises that you have changed some of the Zumo settings, but it does not know what avoidances were set in Basecamp to create the route. It gives a message that seems to suggest that it knows, but it doesn't. It's more of a 'Somethings changed, you might need to recalculate the route. But it does give an option to recalculate or not.

If you want more information about BC route preferences and the Zumos and how the two realate to each other then look here:

For the XT, 5 pages of descriptions, diagrams and tests : https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/app.php/ZXT-P39

----------

For the 590/595 and other related units. There is a pdf file atatched to my first post in this link:
https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=521

Page 30 onwards deals with all of this stuff - including how changing the settings when the Zumo is powered from a different source from normal. The 590 and 595 behave differently from each other. The XT is different yet again.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by rbentnail »

I think you're wrong in some aspects, but I'll agree to disagree. From what I see routes on the XT are customizable. They even have the changed "customized" symbol next to them.
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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by Peobody »

I assume the "customized" icon is being seen in BaseCamp.

I am also convinced that changing route options in BaseCamp somehow affects how the XT handles the route. This is based on my own tests, reinforced by riding partners, that a customized route changes how the XT recalcs. That said, I can not see how. I do not see anything in a customized route .gpx file that lists avoidances nor can I identify anything that flags the route as 'custom'. Only changes to individual waypoint calculation modes are shown in the .gpx file, and, as often mentioned, the options are only FasterTime, ShorterDistance, or Direct. BaseCamp lists a bunch of calculation modes. I tested a handful of them:
Motorcycle = FasterTime
Motorcycle-Shortest = ShorterDistance
Direct = Direct
RV = FasterTime
Walking = ShorterDistance

So, I don't know how to prove that a BC customized route behaves differently on the XT but I was convinced that it did before this morning. That conviction had nothing to do with changed avoidances either. I was convinced that simply ticking the "Customize route options" radio button in the Route Options tab was enough to change the behavior.

Regarding the XT not calculating on import, I wish I could figure this out. Some routes calculate on import, some don't. These can be daily routes created for the same trip using the same map and configuration.
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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by FrankB »

Peobody wrote: 19 Oct 2023 15:24 Regarding the XT not calculating on import, I wish I could figure this out. Some routes calculate on import, some don't. These can be daily routes created for the same trip using the same map and configuration.
A frequent cause is that the route is not calculated in Basecamp with the same map as the one active on the XT when importing.
(The GPX contains in the SUBCLASS field a reference to the map segment number. It is not 'human readable', you have to decode the hex values)

If you transfer the route via Basecamp to the unit, (So not wirelesly via Garmin Drive App) check the Transfer settings in Basecamp. (Edit/Options/Device Tranfer) Untick all checkboxes.

And yes also the Profile and the avoidances come into play. I did not investigate all combinations, but if you use Motorcycle, Faster Time and only check 'Unpaved', do the same on the XT. It does not recalculate.

As a side note: Maybe it is better that the route is recalculated on import. If you check that the imported and recalculated route on the XT is still the same as the track, chances are that a forced recalculation when driving produce the expected result. (I assume that also a track, created from the route in BC, is sent to the XT)
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Re: setting route preferences inside each planned trip

Post by Peobody »

Thanks @FrankB. All known, all triple checked. Yes, I now transfer route and track, and then compare after import. I'm just annoyed that I can't import BC routes without some of them being calculated.

Here is a question: Knowing that the import process includes recording each via point as a Favourite, does anyone have a sense about how much longer it takes to import a route that has three via points as compared to one that has twenty?
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