Tracks vs Routes/Trips

For help and advice on the Garmin Zumo XT2.
gwilki
Posts: 51
Joined: 03 Oct 2023 15:57
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 13 times
Canada

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by gwilki »

thank you very much. JF.

I have given up on myapps.google.

I installed the same maps as I have on the XT2 into Basecamp yesterday. I don't know why I didn't think of that before, but better late than never.

I read the entire .pdf document that lkraus pointed me to at the outset of this thread. I learned a great deal from it, but it also demonstated that there are a great many differnces in how the XT and the XT2 function. Much of what is in that document is not relevant to the XT2.

As somewhat of an aside, I was on the phone yesterday for almost an hour with a Garmin tech. It was very informative. We found an interesting "bug" in Garmin Explore. In brief (more or less), I created what I will call a ride in Explore by clicking on the button to create a route and clicking along the roads that I wanted to follow. By default, the saved "ride" was a route in Explore. I copied the .gpx file that Explore created of that route to my XT2 using a USB cable. The XT2 prompted to import it and I did. But, here is the "bug". As far as the XT2 was concerned, this was a "track" and not a "route". I had to use the option in the XT2 to convert it to a route before I could see and hear turn by turn directions. It was clear that this was the first time that the Gamin tech had seen this.

All this said, it seems clear from all the advice here that I should keep things simple and use Basecamp to create routes and simply copy them to the connected XT2, in the same way as I copy tracks from Basecamp to my Montana 610 for kayaking.

I would like to at least test out the route that is now in my XT2 from the Explore exercise, but rain is forecast for the next 3 or 4 days, and I am a woose.

I will definitely report back on my success or failure in due course.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada
jfheath
Posts: 2514
Joined: 19 Oct 2019 16:17
Location: West Yorkshire, Uk
Has liked: 326 times
Been liked: 689 times
Great Britain

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by jfheath »

gwilki wrote: 06 Oct 2023 14:43
I read the entire .pdf document that lkraus pointed me to at the outset of this thread. I learned a great deal from it, but it also demonstated that there are a great many differences in how the XT and the XT2 function. Much of what is in that document is not relevant to the XT2.
I'm curious. Which pdf ? I haven't published a pdf version of the document for the XT ?

The link that @lkraus provides is a series of Web Pages that I put together for this forum from my own (unpublished) pdf version. I'd be very surprised if the basic operation of the XT2 is that different from the XT - It doesn't seem to be from its manual. But I've never seen an XT2 - and I have been surprised before.

Curious ?
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
gwilki
Posts: 51
Joined: 03 Oct 2023 15:57
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 13 times
Canada

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by gwilki »

My apologies. I misspoke when I said "pdf". In fact, the information that I read was your posted web info, found in the link that lkraus posted - https://www.zumouserforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1464

IMHO, the XT2 seems to vary quite a bit from the XT. Admittedly, I have never owned an XT, though. Some small examples are that the XT2 to does not have "trips" and therefore no trip planner. It does not use Garmin Drive; it uses Garmin Tread for what I believe to be the same functions. There are many other differences.

I want to emphasize that I am very grateful for the resource that you provided. I only mention this because some of the advice and observations are dated as concerns the XT2. I, in no way, intended to be disrespectful.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada
jfheath
Posts: 2514
Joined: 19 Oct 2019 16:17
Location: West Yorkshire, Uk
Has liked: 326 times
Been liked: 689 times
Great Britain

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by jfheath »

I think Route Planner on the XT2 probably does the same job as Trip Planner on the XT - from what I have seen of screen shots.

Trip planner was a poor name for it anyway, and with the XT it seems that they got a bit tied up with the word 'Trip' using it to refer to two completely different things which I believe (should) behave completely differently.

I much prefer 'Route Planner' which is what I used to call it anyway.

When models change they often seem to change the terminology or the way the screens are presented, but the tool essentially does the same thing. But as we have found, the late rmodels are not always an improvement.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
gwilki
Posts: 51
Joined: 03 Oct 2023 15:57
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 13 times
Canada

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by gwilki »

rbentnail wrote: 04 Oct 2023 22:25 Start Garmin Express. Click the setting gear at the top. Uncheck both boxes. Close Express. At the bottom right of your screen make sure Express is not running in the background. If it is, close it.

Never have Base Camp and Express running at the same time.

You don't have to export the route from Base Camp to your computer to get it on your device.

Start Base Camp. Plug your device into your PC and wait a little while. On the left, eventually, you will see your device listed and all the maps there, etc. At the bottom left, highlight your desired route. Now at the top, File/transfer/selection. Something like that, you'll see it. Now unplug and start your device. Import the route.
Thank you. I wanted to follow up to let you know how I am making out - or not making out, really. I did as you said and started Express on my PC, then unchecked the two boxes. I started BC on the PC, then plugged in the XT2. The XT2 started express on the XT2 so that it could talk to the PC. There was no way around this. BC then saw the XT2. I tranferred the selected route to the internal storage of the XT2. It showed that it was there. I closed BC and disconnected the XT2. I turned on the XT2 and it asked if I wanted to import the gpx file. I said yes and it did. The new route showed up in routes. I opened the route clicked on Go. It asked where I wanted to start. This is where things went belly up. I was sitting in my driveway about 1km from the gas station where I had set the start point. I chose "starting point" green flag. I clicked on Start. The XT2 created a direct line to the gas station. No audible directions were spoken. Clearly, I could not go as the crow files, so I drove on streets to the gas station. At that point, the XT2 started talking and told me to make a U-turn as soon as possible. This made no sense as I was at the starting point of the route. However, I did as it said. I made a U-turn. It took me home (the end point in my route), ignoring completely the route that it was showing on the map. I give up.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada
User avatar
Peobody
Subscriber
Posts: 1457
Joined: 20 Apr 2021 13:33
Location: North Carolina USA
Has liked: 109 times
Been liked: 321 times
United States of America

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by Peobody »

In the settings of Garmin Explore (General section) is a setting where you enable/disable to automatic starting of Explore. Untick that option to disable it.

Regarding the u-turn back home, this is common when the start and end points are the same. I don't know whether that was your case nor do I understand the straight line to the start point unless the device, route, or that starting point was configured for Direct routing.
2008 Honda GL1800 Goldwing
1995 Kawasaki ZG1000 Concours
zūmo XT linked to Cardo Packtalk Bold and iPhone SE.
gwilki
Posts: 51
Joined: 03 Oct 2023 15:57
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 13 times
Canada

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by gwilki »

Peobody wrote: 09 Oct 2023 22:13 In the settings of Garmin Explore (General section) is a setting where you enable/disable to automatic starting of Explore. Untick that option to disable it.

Regarding the u-turn back home, this is common when the start and end points are the same. I don't know whether that was your case nor do I understand the straight line to the start point unless the device, route, or that starting point was configured for Direct routing.
I don't see any settings for garmin explore. I am using the web-based version on my PCl, if that makes any difference.

The start and end points were not the same. They were about 2km/1mile apart. Turn by turn navigation is set, not direct.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada
User avatar
Peobody
Subscriber
Posts: 1457
Joined: 20 Apr 2021 13:33
Location: North Carolina USA
Has liked: 109 times
Been liked: 321 times
United States of America

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by Peobody »

gwilki wrote: 09 Oct 2023 22:57 I don't see any settings for garmin explore. I am using the web-based version on my PCl, if that makes any difference.
I'm confused. I thought you were talking about Garmin Express. Also, I thought the XT2 used Tread, not Explore.
2008 Honda GL1800 Goldwing
1995 Kawasaki ZG1000 Concours
zūmo XT linked to Cardo Packtalk Bold and iPhone SE.
gwilki
Posts: 51
Joined: 03 Oct 2023 15:57
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 13 times
Canada

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by gwilki »

Peobody wrote: 09 Oct 2023 23:41
gwilki wrote: 09 Oct 2023 22:57 I don't see any settings for garmin explore. I am using the web-based version on my PCl, if that makes any difference.
I'm confused. I thought you were talking about Garmin Express. Also, I thought the XT2 used Tread, not Explore.
The XT2 sort of uses both Explore and Tread. Garmin has made it as convoluted as possible. So, Explore can be used as the map maker application - replacing Basecamp more or less. Then, either the route done in Explore can be exported and then imported into the XT2 using a usb cable, or Explore can sync with Tread, which in turn syncs with the XT2.

All that said, I learned from a Garmin engineer today that, even though it is a route that is created in Explore, if not using Tread, Explore saves out a track, not a route. Then the route must be converted back to a route in the XT2 for turn by turn directions. He did not explain why Garmin did this, only that it is by design.

One thing that I have not yet learned is that, when Explore converts the file it is about to export to a track, does it save the waypoints along with it. If I am correct, in Basecamp if a route is created and exported, the waypoints go with it. If a track is created, the waypoints must be manually selected or they are not exported.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada
gwilki
Posts: 51
Joined: 03 Oct 2023 15:57
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 13 times
Canada

Re: Tracks vs Routes/Trips

Post by gwilki »

I thought that an update was in order.

I have to say that Garmin support has been excellent in trying to help me. We have not solved anything, but it is not for lack of trying.

The most recent input from Garmin is that it is "by design" that the XT2 will not play well with either Basecamp or Explore. Garmin wants to force XT2 users to create their routes in Tread and only Tread. So, if it does not appeal to you to create routes on a small screen, the XT2 is not for you. Garmin explained that, if I create a route in Basecamp or Explore, the XT2 will change it when it syncs. (Some reviewers of the Tread app say that this happens even when using Tread.) Once again, the changes are "by design". These may well not be small changes, either. I did a very short test leaving a local gas station, getting on the highway, leaving the highway at the first exit and returning home via local streets. It looks perfect in Explore. In Tread and through sync, on the XT2, the route did not leave the highway at the first exit at all. It continued for 2 more km, then exited, then wound its way to the local streets. Not even close. According to Garmin, this is "by design". Use Tread.

I really like the XT2 as far as the hardware is concerned. However, having now spent the better part of 30+ hours trying to get what I thought would be the simple exercise of creating routes, transferring them to the XT2 and enjoying a motorcycle ride, I believe it's time to give up. I realize that many others have gotten this to work. So, clearly, this failure is on me. However, as the wise man said, "the definition of insanity is to continue to take the same action time and time again and expect a different outcome." It's time for me to accept that and move on.

Thank you to everyone here who tried to help. I really appreciate it.
Grant Wilkinson
Ottawa ON Canada