Weird Routing Behaviour - Major Success.

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Peobody
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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by Peobody »

jfheath wrote: 20 May 2023 15:03 CEP - I find that creates the same situation as skipping a point - ie it 'arms' the XT ready for the next time you deviate from the route.

A different 'solution' is to turn of Auto-recalc, find the next route point that you will encounter, change it to a Via Point and select Go. Select the Via Point as the next destination. This will start the route again, beginning with navigating you to the nearest point ahead.
Thanks! I think it is irrelevant for me since I will always restart the route rather than skip a point. I will keep it in mind though to see if helps with the data display that I posted about separately.
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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by Stu »

Cracking work there @FrankB and everyone else who is testing

Can I make a suggestion and that @jfheath sends a known route to @FrankB to edit then send it back to be tested?

It looks to me like the issue is related to imported routes and maybe there is some background data that is telling the zumo to use the imported route as much as possible and not to recalculate it?
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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by jfheath »

OK - I have a test route that I have previously documented and reported to Tech Support on a currently open case. I am assured that work will continue again on this tomorrow. The engineer is currently spending about two days on it every other week. The issue has been reproduced, but not consistently. But that is under simulation.

I have a completely restarted and cleaned out XT
I've transferredthe route to the XT unaltered. Imported it, then copied the only trip file to the PC, edited it to change the flag to 0 indicating
Imported = False. Then saved it back to the .System Trip Folder. Over-writing the original.

Started up the XT checked the Saved Trips in Trip Planner and my route is now listed under 'Saved Trips'.

I will leave it there until tomorrow. When I will test ride it.

I'll put the maps and details on here as a reminder of before and after the test.
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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by FrankB »

@Stu

Let's just hope that I'm right. Expectations are high!

I'm willing to modify anybody's trip and sent it back. But John I already explained how to modify the trips. I trust it he will manage.
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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by FrankB »

Just did two more tests.

1) Deviated from a trip, listed under Imported, and it kept requesting U-turns.
2) Deviated from the same trip, but patched so that it was listed under Saved, and it recalculated nicely.

Beginning to believe "We've got em"

@danham Meanwhile I created a small Java program that modifies a trip to 'Saved'.
Nothing fancy, and probably real Java programmers will frown their eye brows, but it works. Interested?

Edit: Added 2 screenshots of the tracklog. The first shows clearly that it's broken, The second is unbroken.
Tracklog Imported.jpg
Tracklog Imported.jpg (358.21 KiB) Viewed 993 times
Tracklog Saved.jpg
Tracklog Saved.jpg (343.92 KiB) Viewed 993 times
Last edited by FrankB on 20 May 2023 18:46, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by jfheath »

The attached picture - (click to see a bigger image) Shows the test route in Magenta. Starting before the bottom right with two route points - the start, which I will pass through a couple of minutes after setting off. And another route point which I will skip before I get to it.
This may or may ot be necessary, but I know that when I do that, normally the never ending RUT loop will start as soon as I deviate from the plotted route.

Test Route.jpg
Test Route.jpg (129.88 KiB) Viewed 1001 times
Previously

The navigation would be OK travelling up the right hand side until I reached the most northerly point on the map and the first Via Point - red circle.
I'd then travel south west to Ribblehead - the point where my intended path heads south (ish).

But skipping that earlier via point has caused the XT to recalculate the route and from the most northerly point at the top of the map, it will want to take me SW along the blue arrowed road and then SE along the A65 blue arrow, in order to get to the next Via point at the yellow circe. It is the faster road according to the satnav, but it isn't the route that I plotted in Basecamp, and it isn't the route I want to take. I will take the magenta route shown on the map, and by the red arrow.

Immediaately it starts asking me to go back. To U turn, and it does that repeatedly all the way to Settle - which is about where the end of the red arrow is near the Yellow circle. Its route is to go back all the way to Ribblehead, and follow its blue arrow route - to do 29 miles to get to the location that is a mile in front of me.

More recently.

The last test I did was the same route, but for some reason it wanted to double back after the first Via Points at the bottom right of the map, and take me to the red circle Via Point at the top of the map. It wanted me to go along the faste A65 - shown by the three long black arrows.

I tunrned the volume down - but it kept demanding U turn after U turn all the way to Oughtershaw when it gave up an naviagted ahead. I thought that it had given up and that it was no longer in a RUT but was doing the sensible thing. No. I rode through the Via Point and the XT was showing it was about 15 miles ahead. It was routing me all the way to Ingleton where the blue arrow ends at the left hand side of the map, turned me round in a hosuign estate and then ent all the way back to the red circle. It was still remembering its original route. And either it thought Ingleton was the closest point where I could turn round, or the Via Point has to be approached from the originally intended direction. I did pass through it, but I was going the wrong way for it to recognise the fact.

Tomorrow's test

I have two routes planned. Both have been prepared on Basecamp, transferred and Imported. Both have had the byte in the trip file changed so that they think that they are a saved trip rather than an imported one.

One is as described and as shown by the magenta line. It will have been recalculated by the XT when I press Skip just after the start.
At Cracoe - Green square - if I place the bike there (in simulation), then the XT calculates that the magenta line is the fastest way to get to the Via at the top of the map. So I know once I reach that point it should calculate ahead - If I get to Kettlewell and it is still asking me to go back, two things will happen.

1) I will be very disappointed.
2) I shall abort the route and stop the bike ahead of the green circle which will be the start of the second route.

So from just before Kettlewell, setting off towards the Top red circle Via Point, I will pass through the first green starting point and then skip the next green circle Via Point. This will set up the route to normally start a RUT loop when I head south down the red arrowed road - because the satnav will want me to go to Ingleton.

Whether I am still on the original route or I have had to start the second route, once I have passed the most northerly red circle Via Point I will be heading for the sharp left hander at Ribblehead following the magenta line on the map and the red arrow. Ignoring the magenta line on the satnav (blue arrow) - which it recalculated when I pressed Skip.
I will know instantly I turn. It will either tell me to go back, and begin a RUT loop for the next 10 miles or it will navigate ahead. Navigating ahead is what it does if I build the same route on the XT screen.

Listen carefully. I don't care where you are. You will hear the Yahooooooo !!!. It'll be about 1 o'clock UK time.
Or you may hear a fairly explicit expletive the like of which never passes my lips unless it is a really serious occasion. like when you hit a 6 inch nail with a lump hammer squarely on the knuckles. You get the idea.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by danham »

FrankB wrote: 20 May 2023 18:14
@danham Meanwhile I created a small Java program that modifies a trip to 'Saved'.
Nothing fancy, and probably real Java programmers will frown their eye brows, but it works. Interested?
Yes, definitely! I just updated to the newest Mac OS, which broke my Hex Editor, so found a new one and downloaded it, but I've yet to use/learn it and your Java tool sounds like a lot better approach. Thanks!

-dan
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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by jfheath »

If this works - I'll be taking a look at the route point names to see if theya re the same as they were in Basecamp. If they are, then there may be a way of preventing them from being changed. I thought that the name changes ahppened in transfer/import. But they may be changed after import and during the load process.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by FrankB »

jfheath wrote: 20 May 2023 18:23 Listen carefully. I don't care where you are. You will hear the Yahoo. It'll be about 1 o'clock UK time.
Or you may hear a pretty explicit expletive the like of which never passes my lips unless it is a really serious occasion. Think of hitting a 6 inch nail with a lump hammer squarely on the knuckles. You get the idea.
I think I will be fast asleep in The Netherlands, far enough to be safe.

Edit: Didn't hear you. Ah you meant 1 PM ofcourse.
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Re: Weird Routing Behaviour - Success.

Post by jfheath »

7:31am

Woke early. at about 5am. Excitement and trepidation. What if this doesn't work ?

But it has every chance - we have been looking for what makes the difference between a basecamp route and a route created on the XT for a long time. I had convinced myself that the Basecamp route was being treated like a track that had been converted to a trip - once it had recalculated. (I still believe that to be the case). I also linked it with the fact that route points have their names changed =- but not from MRA it seems, and not saved Waypoints.

We thought it had something to do with the Sublcass in the gpx field - @FrankB spent ages trying to decode it. I did a lot of testing with changing the subclass field to defaults or omitting them altogether. Nothing was conclusive and we couldn't decode the hexadecimal string fully.

In the meantime, Frank latched onto the Trips folder in the system directory. I focused on the exact circumstances when a route misbehaved and when it didn't. The start of this thread was a real break through. And suddenly it seems as though a lot of different thoughts and observations have come together at the same time - with Frank's Byte alteration being the magic bullet that fixes everything.

And this morning will either strongly suggest that this is entirely possible using a route that I have a lot of documented testing in different sitautions.

Or it will completely disprove it.

And it will all happen in a few seconds when I turn left at a particular junction. Elation or disappointment.

Yes. I am nervous !!


Right that has filled in the time. Get gear on. Go and ride.

Don't forget the satnav John !!
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC