Or create a track from the original route and display that on the map at the same time as the route. The track will stay in place, unaltered, even if the route recalculates.
You can show the track of where you have been Settings -> Map & Vehicle -> Map Layers -> Travel History.
It shows up as a cyan (light blue) line on the map and leaves a trail behind you as you drive. It can be annoying if you are in a place where you travel the same roads over and over again, but that won't be an issue in a new location.
The only major issue with my 346.
Re: The only major issue with my 346.
Yes, did that last night after reading the ( rather fine ) document but didn't try a short test route today. Going to do about 6 runs with different tests to see how things work out and will feedback. Cheers.
Re: The only major issue with my 346.
Tried basecamp clicking on a created route, select centre of map then selecting each way,via or shaping point for the route and it is so easy check how accurately I have placed them. Another great suggestion, thank you so much.
Re: The only major issue with my 346.
Ok I have a test route of 10 miles or so through some vast estates and dual carriageways here and tried to understand the basics of how it works. I have found some weird stuff, I think, I am definitely no expert so this is just opinion. Its not just to criticise but to try and understand the best way to use it when things start to go wrong.
1) Basecamp randomly seems to create points when inserting between a start and stop location as shaping of via points. Using the advice given I step through each point and have to convert some of them back to shaping points. There must be a reason but not sure ... suspect it may be if you place your point next to a known feature/shop etc.
2) If you create a route in Basecamp and it crosses a Way/via point that it already there from another route in your routes list, it inserts it into your new route and you cannot get past it without skipping .. need to try again to prove.
On my Zumo:-
2) If you skip a shaping point it simply deletes it from the actual route file and recalculates. This means you can never simply reboot and go back to what you created - if it has all gone wrong, it stays wrong and I assume you have to reload it from basecamp. I might always load 2 versions of each route as a backup.
3) If it recalculates and sends you back along a road already in the route to a shaping point that you missed whilst detouring ( ie crossing your own route ) it simply stops following the route and the line disappears and it then just recalculates to the final destination. Your whole planned route seems to be lost. This means my idea of simply riding back to where it all started to go wrong ignoring the Garmin until I get there is a BAD idea.
4) If whilst in 3 you try to place a shaping point on the original route, it takes you there, then goes back to just recalculate to final destination .. your whole days planned route is still lost.
5) Trying detour by distance still took me back to a missed shaping point .. but I will try that again to prove it ( see 1 ).
6) Having a track in a different colour under the route seemed to work fine. Even if the route file is, sort of, corrupted I could still follow the track file.
So still lots more to try and work out what it is doing. The fact that it edits its working file seems a little crazy. No wonder I would have a whole day when it worked then awful days where I just seemed to be fighting it all day long.
Again thanks for all the help and advice.
1) Basecamp randomly seems to create points when inserting between a start and stop location as shaping of via points. Using the advice given I step through each point and have to convert some of them back to shaping points. There must be a reason but not sure ... suspect it may be if you place your point next to a known feature/shop etc.
2) If you create a route in Basecamp and it crosses a Way/via point that it already there from another route in your routes list, it inserts it into your new route and you cannot get past it without skipping .. need to try again to prove.
On my Zumo:-
2) If you skip a shaping point it simply deletes it from the actual route file and recalculates. This means you can never simply reboot and go back to what you created - if it has all gone wrong, it stays wrong and I assume you have to reload it from basecamp. I might always load 2 versions of each route as a backup.
3) If it recalculates and sends you back along a road already in the route to a shaping point that you missed whilst detouring ( ie crossing your own route ) it simply stops following the route and the line disappears and it then just recalculates to the final destination. Your whole planned route seems to be lost. This means my idea of simply riding back to where it all started to go wrong ignoring the Garmin until I get there is a BAD idea.
4) If whilst in 3 you try to place a shaping point on the original route, it takes you there, then goes back to just recalculate to final destination .. your whole days planned route is still lost.
5) Trying detour by distance still took me back to a missed shaping point .. but I will try that again to prove it ( see 1 ).
6) Having a track in a different colour under the route seemed to work fine. Even if the route file is, sort of, corrupted I could still follow the track file.
So still lots more to try and work out what it is doing. The fact that it edits its working file seems a little crazy. No wonder I would have a whole day when it worked then awful days where I just seemed to be fighting it all day long.
Again thanks for all the help and advice.
Re: The only major issue with my 346.
1- Yes, in my experience it happens when I edit a route after creating it first. If you move a shaping point or add one or two, it can set as a via point. Not sure what it corresponds with, but check and convert them to shaping points (as "do not announce").Grumly wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:51 am Ok I have a test route of 10 miles or so through some vast estates and dual carriageways here and tried to understand the basics of how it works. I have found some weird stuff, I think, I am definitely no expert so this is just opinion. Its not just to criticise but to try and understand the best way to use it when things start to go wrong.
1) Basecamp randomly seems to create points when inserting between a start and stop location as shaping of via points. Using the advice given I step through each point and have to convert some of them back to shaping points. There must be a reason but not sure ... suspect it may be if you place your point next to a known feature/shop etc.
2) If you create a route in Basecamp and it crosses a Way/via point that it already there from another route in your routes list, it inserts it into your new route and you cannot get past it without skipping .. need to try again to prove.
On my Zumo:-
2) If you skip a shaping point it simply deletes it from the actual route file and recalculates. This means you can never simply reboot and go back to what you created - if it has all gone wrong, it stays wrong and I assume you have to reload it from basecamp. I might always load 2 versions of each route as a backup.
3) If it recalculates and sends you back along a road already in the route to a shaping point that you missed whilst detouring ( ie crossing your own route ) it simply stops following the route and the line disappears and it then just recalculates to the final destination. Your whole planned route seems to be lost. This means my idea of simply riding back to where it all started to go wrong ignoring the Garmin until I get there is a BAD idea.
4) If whilst in 3 you try to place a shaping point on the original route, it takes you there, then goes back to just recalculate to final destination .. your whole days planned route is still lost.
5) Trying detour by distance still took me back to a missed shaping point .. but I will try that again to prove it ( see 1 ).
6) Having a track in a different colour under the route seemed to work fine. Even if the route file is, sort of, corrupted I could still follow the track file.
So still lots more to try and work out what it is doing. The fact that it edits its working file seems a little crazy. No wonder I would have a whole day when it worked then awful days where I just seemed to be fighting it all day long.
Again thanks for all the help and advice.
I'm not sure about Way points (ie favorite/saved) if you passing them in the new route, but the via and shaping points from previous route should not be there. I make a new subfolder for each route. You can also create a new route under existing subfolder but then export is as a selection (route than track one by one.)
In Zumo, you can delete your route and re-import it again (clicking on 3 lines in the top left). But, it may not solve your problem if you need to start somewhere in the middle of it. 396 doesn't have "nearest route point" option like XT does, so you can restart either from the nearest Via point or by changing a nearest shaping point into Via point and restart from. For the latest, it takes some counting of shaping points to know which point you are near at, which can be tedious. Selecting the end point will send you directly there (don't know why they overlooked this...).
It would be good if they had added the "nearest route point" as the XT has, or better yet as the 1450 nuvi has (wishful thinking).
So as I said before the track is always your friend.
As for the detour by miles, it still going to send you back to the Via point even if it's in the detoured section, but I don't think it will send you to a shaping point (not 100% sure though). In any case, it is your responsibility to chose the right direction (ie, if the magenta line showing right and left you should know where the detoured side and where you need to continue. Just zoom out and see where you need to go). It may be another flow, but Garmin doesn't know if the Via point is inside or outside of the closed off section and it reminds you to go there if you still need to.
Cheers.
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jfheath
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- Location: West Yorkshire, Uk
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Re: The only major issue with my 346.
I am not going to comment on detour by miles or by any other criteria. I tried it a few times and didn't like what it did, and I've not tried it since. I once had the idea that Garmin would improve the behaviour, but that is really more hope than experience.
But I will address a few points that you have observed.
1. BC Route points. When placing them on the BC map, the placed point 'snaps' to a nearby location if it has the chance. Even if it is not shown in the map. It may be a known point on the map, a road label, the local supermarket, or a saved Waypoint. You can tell if ii is a waypoint, as it will appear in the lower pane in the left hand panel. The only points that appear in there are Waypoints, and as such will appear in the list of Favourites on the Zumo.
Generally, points that are known will appear as flags, larger discs, or smaller discs, and these will usually appear in the route as 'Alerting' points or Via Points. Other placed points are likely to appear as small black dots when shown in the route, and these are normally set as 'Non-Alerting', or Shaping Points. It doesn't matter (yet). Get the points in approximately in place and don't worry too much about what or where they are. That comes later.
When the route is finished, use the Route list, that shows all of the route points, and click on each one in turn. With the Centre Map option ticked, it will zoom in to show the exact location, and you can move it. You can then set route points to be either alerting or non alerting. You can multi-select in BC to switch a few at the same time. Start and finish both have to be alerting (via points)
2. It makes sense to have a small number of via points as well as the start and finish. Usually at stops or at places that you will definitely pass through. Make the rest shaping points.
3. Note that if you change a via to a shaping on the Zumo, it may rename it and move it - sometimes changing the magenta line to take a faster road. This is true for the XT and 595. I don't know if it also applies to the 346.
4. One useful way of keeping the original route, unaltered, is to save it directly to the Gpx folder either in internal storage or the SD card, rather than transferring from Basecamp. The Zumo cannot touch these files to alter them or delete them. You can delete all of your routes from the Trip Planner and then re-import them. You may be able to do that on the 346 after transferring from BC normally, but the XT has a 'feature' which enables it to delete previously transferred routes, if additional routes are transferred at a different time. The 346 may also do this. Or not. I don't know.
5. Behaviour of the route with shaping points only. Before the Zumos had the trip planner app, units like the Zumo 660 didn't have alerting Via points like Zumos have now. If you plotted a figure of 8 route, at some point the route would cross over itself. You meet a cross roads. Straight ahead would be the correct way to go. Turn right and you would be repeating the lower circular part of the fig 8 that you have just done. Whichever route you took, the satnav would continue to navigate you in that direction. If after half a mile, you turned round and went back to the junction and took the other magenta line - it would navigate you that way as well. Providing you were not going against the direction of travel, it didn't care.
This sort of behaviour was most commonly seen when starting a circular route from home to somewhere and finish at home. Same place. set the route running, and it would immediately say 'Arrived at Destination' and stop the route ! Great fun. Saved a lot of petrol.
What has that got to do with the routes on the 34x, the 59x and the XT zumos? Well if you have a route that consists entirely of shaping points, the Zumo will behave in a similar manner. Although it tries to take you to shaping points in the correct order, if you decide to go walkabout and rejoin the route later on, it will not complain as soon as you rejoin it. It will not take you back to visit the missed points. If you have autorecalc turned off and you leave the route, it will not utter another word until you rejoin it somewhere ahead.
However, it might wipe out the section of route that has already been traveled. I've not attempted to work out exactly when it does this and when it does not.
But put Via points into a route, it is a different story. You cannot miss a Via point in the same way that I have described above for shaping points. The Zumo complains bitterly. it treats via points as being the start and end of a complete route section. In fact it refers to a via point as a 'Destination'. So although you can miss out shaping points and rejoin the route later on, if you remain in the same section, it will start to complain if you miss out a Via Point.
It will let you do this if you need to but you have to use the Skip facility. In this case, the Zumo may recalculate just the section from where you are to the next shaping or via point. Some, like the XT, recalculate the entire route.
6. One further issue that may exist with the 346. But I don't know - but I will describe what happens with the XT. In Basecamp, you can name your route points. I like to number mine, either in sequence or to include the mileage. Eg 123 Lunch, Hawes. When Basecamp transfers these to the XT, the XT renames them ! It also happens with the 595, but not the 590. But.... It doesn't happen if you make the point by using the Waypoint Flag tool. And it doesn't happen if you create a gpx file and manually put it into the gpx folder on the Zumo, or if you email it or send it to Garmin Drive, or if you use MyRouteApp. Only if you use Basecamp Transfer. Its an easy check to make whether it happens with your 346.
But I will address a few points that you have observed.
1. BC Route points. When placing them on the BC map, the placed point 'snaps' to a nearby location if it has the chance. Even if it is not shown in the map. It may be a known point on the map, a road label, the local supermarket, or a saved Waypoint. You can tell if ii is a waypoint, as it will appear in the lower pane in the left hand panel. The only points that appear in there are Waypoints, and as such will appear in the list of Favourites on the Zumo.
Generally, points that are known will appear as flags, larger discs, or smaller discs, and these will usually appear in the route as 'Alerting' points or Via Points. Other placed points are likely to appear as small black dots when shown in the route, and these are normally set as 'Non-Alerting', or Shaping Points. It doesn't matter (yet). Get the points in approximately in place and don't worry too much about what or where they are. That comes later.
When the route is finished, use the Route list, that shows all of the route points, and click on each one in turn. With the Centre Map option ticked, it will zoom in to show the exact location, and you can move it. You can then set route points to be either alerting or non alerting. You can multi-select in BC to switch a few at the same time. Start and finish both have to be alerting (via points)
2. It makes sense to have a small number of via points as well as the start and finish. Usually at stops or at places that you will definitely pass through. Make the rest shaping points.
3. Note that if you change a via to a shaping on the Zumo, it may rename it and move it - sometimes changing the magenta line to take a faster road. This is true for the XT and 595. I don't know if it also applies to the 346.
4. One useful way of keeping the original route, unaltered, is to save it directly to the Gpx folder either in internal storage or the SD card, rather than transferring from Basecamp. The Zumo cannot touch these files to alter them or delete them. You can delete all of your routes from the Trip Planner and then re-import them. You may be able to do that on the 346 after transferring from BC normally, but the XT has a 'feature' which enables it to delete previously transferred routes, if additional routes are transferred at a different time. The 346 may also do this. Or not. I don't know.
5. Behaviour of the route with shaping points only. Before the Zumos had the trip planner app, units like the Zumo 660 didn't have alerting Via points like Zumos have now. If you plotted a figure of 8 route, at some point the route would cross over itself. You meet a cross roads. Straight ahead would be the correct way to go. Turn right and you would be repeating the lower circular part of the fig 8 that you have just done. Whichever route you took, the satnav would continue to navigate you in that direction. If after half a mile, you turned round and went back to the junction and took the other magenta line - it would navigate you that way as well. Providing you were not going against the direction of travel, it didn't care.
This sort of behaviour was most commonly seen when starting a circular route from home to somewhere and finish at home. Same place. set the route running, and it would immediately say 'Arrived at Destination' and stop the route ! Great fun. Saved a lot of petrol.
What has that got to do with the routes on the 34x, the 59x and the XT zumos? Well if you have a route that consists entirely of shaping points, the Zumo will behave in a similar manner. Although it tries to take you to shaping points in the correct order, if you decide to go walkabout and rejoin the route later on, it will not complain as soon as you rejoin it. It will not take you back to visit the missed points. If you have autorecalc turned off and you leave the route, it will not utter another word until you rejoin it somewhere ahead.
However, it might wipe out the section of route that has already been traveled. I've not attempted to work out exactly when it does this and when it does not.
But put Via points into a route, it is a different story. You cannot miss a Via point in the same way that I have described above for shaping points. The Zumo complains bitterly. it treats via points as being the start and end of a complete route section. In fact it refers to a via point as a 'Destination'. So although you can miss out shaping points and rejoin the route later on, if you remain in the same section, it will start to complain if you miss out a Via Point.
It will let you do this if you need to but you have to use the Skip facility. In this case, the Zumo may recalculate just the section from where you are to the next shaping or via point. Some, like the XT, recalculate the entire route.
6. One further issue that may exist with the 346. But I don't know - but I will describe what happens with the XT. In Basecamp, you can name your route points. I like to number mine, either in sequence or to include the mileage. Eg 123 Lunch, Hawes. When Basecamp transfers these to the XT, the XT renames them ! It also happens with the 595, but not the 590. But.... It doesn't happen if you make the point by using the Waypoint Flag tool. And it doesn't happen if you create a gpx file and manually put it into the gpx folder on the Zumo, or if you email it or send it to Garmin Drive, or if you use MyRouteApp. Only if you use Basecamp Transfer. Its an easy check to make whether it happens with your 346.
Today, I discovered something really important. I found another way that doesn't work.
Re: The only major issue with my 346.
Guys thanks so much for these well thought out responses. So much information to process and understand. My trip will be 5 days and 1500 miles leading 5 bikes so I want my Garmin routing to be as fullproof as possible ( however in my case, if only it could be foolproof ).
Understand about the via/waypoint snapping from a nearby `feature` in basecamp when I simply insert a point, this is what I suspected. I will also see if I can name the shaping points when I create them but not found it yet.
I have done the clicking through each and every point for each days route and checking exactly where they are placed and changing them all to non alerting ( other than the start/finish waypoints ). Based on these suggestions, I will convert a few of them back to via points though
I will try the idea of a new sub folder for each days ride, this makes a lot of sense.
Just tried the re- import option, that is a great thing to know, cheers.The thought of having my whole days route file corrupted 10mins after setting off and no way to recover it was worrying. I will also get an SD card and try the gpx folder suggestion.
The detour by distance did seem to work but deleting the shaping point it was trying to head me back to caused the route file corruption issues. However this was possibly due to me having a very short circular route so the detour put me right on on the return leg and then again started to send me back down it to the previous shaping point. It then lost most of the route and just took me the fasted way to the destination, via points may break this up into more manageable chunks. I will try this again to see if it is repeatable and take some screenshot/photo's to illustrate.
It is so good to be able to talk to people who, it would seem, like to try to understand HOW and WHY these things happen rather than just the sequence of options to press when it does ( the modern trend with all operating systems now, it would seem ). Part of it is that Garmins initial fundamental concept of how humans will react when it doesn't work as expected, seems rather odd to me. This information gives me the tools to try and work out what has gone wrong and from there how to best react ( rather then a seemingly random sequence of actions/buttons/gestures/facial expressions).
Sorry, a rather gloomy Grumly today.
Understand about the via/waypoint snapping from a nearby `feature` in basecamp when I simply insert a point, this is what I suspected. I will also see if I can name the shaping points when I create them but not found it yet.
I have done the clicking through each and every point for each days route and checking exactly where they are placed and changing them all to non alerting ( other than the start/finish waypoints ). Based on these suggestions, I will convert a few of them back to via points though
I will try the idea of a new sub folder for each days ride, this makes a lot of sense.
Just tried the re- import option, that is a great thing to know, cheers.The thought of having my whole days route file corrupted 10mins after setting off and no way to recover it was worrying. I will also get an SD card and try the gpx folder suggestion.
The detour by distance did seem to work but deleting the shaping point it was trying to head me back to caused the route file corruption issues. However this was possibly due to me having a very short circular route so the detour put me right on on the return leg and then again started to send me back down it to the previous shaping point. It then lost most of the route and just took me the fasted way to the destination, via points may break this up into more manageable chunks. I will try this again to see if it is repeatable and take some screenshot/photo's to illustrate.
It is so good to be able to talk to people who, it would seem, like to try to understand HOW and WHY these things happen rather than just the sequence of options to press when it does ( the modern trend with all operating systems now, it would seem ). Part of it is that Garmins initial fundamental concept of how humans will react when it doesn't work as expected, seems rather odd to me. This information gives me the tools to try and work out what has gone wrong and from there how to best react ( rather then a seemingly random sequence of actions/buttons/gestures/facial expressions).
Sorry, a rather gloomy Grumly today.
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lkraus
- Posts: 342
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:36 pm
- Location: Central Ohio
- Has liked: 49 times
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Re: The only major issue with my 346.
If you move a route by dragging it in Basecamp, and drop it at an intersection, you will create a new shaping point.Fxwheels wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:50 pm 1- Yes, in my experience it happens when I edit a route after creating it first. If you move a shaping point or add one or two, it can set as a via point. Not sure what it corresponds with, but check and convert them to shaping points (as "do not announce").
If you drop it between intersections you will create a new via point.
I do not recommend placing via points at intersections where you need to turn, as the announcement of your approach and arrival at the point overrides and prevents the announcement of the upcoming turn.
____________________________________
2006 R1200RT
Galaxy S10<>Zumo XT<>Sena 20S
2006 R1200RT
Galaxy S10<>Zumo XT<>Sena 20S
Re: The only major issue with my 346.
I'm always placing the via/shaping points AFTER the turn to insure that it will make me turn where I need to. Been therelkraus wrote: ↑Fri Feb 10, 2023 2:47 amIf you move a route by dragging it in Basecamp, and drop it at an intersection, you will create a new shaping point.Fxwheels wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 4:50 pm 1- Yes, in my experience it happens when I edit a route after creating it first. If you move a shaping point or add one or two, it can set as a via point. Not sure what it corresponds with, but check and convert them to shaping points (as "do not announce").
If you drop it between intersections you will create a new via point.
I do not recommend placing via points at intersections where you need to turn, as the announcement of your approach and arrival at the point overrides and prevents the announcement of the upcoming turn.
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lkraus
- Posts: 342
- Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:36 pm
- Location: Central Ohio
- Has liked: 49 times
- Been liked: 110 times
Re: The only major issue with my 346.
Well, I'm lazy.
Dropping the route in the intersection means I automatically and quickly get a shaping point and I don't need to go back and change the point to non-alerting. Could be a problem if I later change it on the Zumo to a via point, but that has not been an issue. Yet.
____________________________________
2006 R1200RT
Galaxy S10<>Zumo XT<>Sena 20S
2006 R1200RT
Galaxy S10<>Zumo XT<>Sena 20S