Shaping points converting to way points

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oldwobbler
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Shaping points converting to way points

Post by oldwobbler »

I planned 12 days worth of routes on Basecamp. I meticulously made sure all routing points were changed to shaping points (won't announce) in Basecamp before sending the routes to the 595. The unit imported the routes and recalculated but in doing so has randomly changed some of the shaping points back to way points that the unit insisted I passed before allowing me to continue. Why does it do this and can I avoid it happening in future?
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Re: Shaping points converting to way points

Post by rbentnail »

A useful thing I have always done is to change my route to a custom one in Base Camp prior to transfer. Double click route name, box opens. Click tab Route Options, tick Customize Route Options. Select your preferences.

You can also do this with routes after transfer with the device connected to your computer.

Shaping points convert to VIA points, not waypoints.
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oldwobbler
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Re: Shaping points converting to way points

Post by oldwobbler »

I used the "Custom" suggestion from rbentnail above. It seemed to work when transferring to the unit. I then saved the routes (exported) to my hard drive both as GPX and GDB. When I open these saved files in BC neither are saved as "Custom" routes, both have reverted back to the "motorcycle" profile. The GDB file has randomly converted shaping points to via points. The GPX file, while converting back to the "motorcycle" profile looks to have kept the shaping points. Why does BC insist on making shaping points via points?
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Re: Shaping points converting to way points

Post by Peobody »

oldwobbler wrote: 21 Mar 2024 10:46 Why does BC insist on making shaping points via points?
This does not happed for me. When I change mine to "Custom" I don't change any of the options. I simply open the "Route Options" tab then tick the "Customize Route Options" radio button. That is enough to set it as 'Custom'.

As for the shaping points converting to waypoints when using .GBD files, there is a relevant discussion on the Garmin forum that may provide some insights. https://forums.garmin.com/apps-software ... gpx-vs-gdb
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Re: Shaping points converting to way points

Post by rbentnail »

oldwobbler wrote: 21 Mar 2024 10:46 I used the "Custom" suggestion from rbentnail above. It seemed to work when transferring to the unit. I then saved the routes (exported) to my hard drive both as GPX and GDB. When I open these saved files in BC neither are saved as "Custom" routes, both have reverted back to the "motorcycle" profile. The GDB file has randomly converted shaping points to via points. The GPX file, while converting back to the "motorcycle" profile looks to have kept the shaping points. Why does BC insist on making shaping points via points?
Sounds like unnecessary steps to me. I save my routes in Base Camp, exporting them only when I share with others via DropBox. The customized settings never change when using Base Camp.
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Re: Shaping points converting to way points

Post by jfheath »

Route Points from MapSource Changing to Via

This is normal behaviour. Mapsource was the program to use when the early Zumos were around - right up through the 550 and 660. When the 590, 595, 39x and XT came on the scene, they brought with them Basecamp and a distinction between Via Points and Shaping Points. Mapsource used only Via Points.
Although the GDB format does seem to keep the status of a route point - ie via/shaping, any route that has been created or recalculated in Mapsource can only pass back Via Points. Mapsource doesn't know about Shaping Points.

Saving Routes / in Basecamp.

I think if you are familiar with MapSource, you will be in the habit of Saving files before you close dwon the program ?

Basecamp works differently. You do not have to save anything before closing the program.

At the start it opens up a database and it keeps it open all of the time. When you add routes, they get saved automatically. When you create tracks and waypoints, they are also placed in the database, automatcally. When you close down Basecamp, it shuts down the database properly. There is no need to save anything - unless as @rbentnail suggested - you want to create a gpx file to give to someone else, or you like to transfer it manually to the XT or to the SD card.

You use 'List Folders' and 'Lists' to keep all of your routes and data organised - In the same way that you might use folders to organise your files on your computer.

In the partial screen shot of Basecamp below. I have a database - mine is called 2024 Routes. AT present I have two (yellow) list folders:

* 2024 April Betws Y Coed. There is nothing in that as yet.
* 2024 Southern Uplands

2024 Southern Uplands contains 5 Lists - which I have numbered according to the day of my tour.

12 Goathland is the list that is currently selected, and its details are shown in the lower pane - 3 saved Waypoints (created with the flag tool in Basecamp). These will end up in Favourites / Saved on the Zumo. And a single route. I normally plan a couple of alternatives in case the weather is particularly good or desperately bad !!

BY clicking on a single list folder, I can see the routes, tracks, route points and waypoints for just a single day.
By clicking on 2024 Southern Upland, I can see on the map all of the routes for the whole tour.
By clicking on 2024 Routes, I can see everything that I want to see in the database.

The tiny icons at the bottom allow me to filter what I can see - eg Just the waypoints, just the routes, just the tracks

BC List Folder and Lists.png
BC List Folder and Lists.png (29.31 KiB) Viewed 1643 times


Profiles and Custom Routes

Route preferences are kept in a Basecamp profile - and any number of routes can be associated with the same profile. In fact - if you edit a profile, BC will go through all of the routes that use that profile and recalculate them with the new settings.

Or - you can create a Custom Route - as @rbentnail suggests. This creates one collection of settings and associates that with just one route. This has the advantage of being able to see immediately on the map the effect of changing a single avoidance.

But in both cases, none of the avoidance information is ever passed on in the gpx file. Not to the Zumo. Not to any friend to whom you may wish to give the route. Basecamp will send:
  • The route - exactly as it was created - held in place by thousands of invisible route points as well as any via, shaping and waypoints.
  • The Profile name - which is used to identify the vehicle. Custom routes do not send any name at all.
  • The routing preference of (eg)Faster, Shorter.


If no vehicle is specified and no routing preference is specified, then the XT assumes Motorcycle / Faster Time


I suspect (but I don't know) that if such a route is passed to Basecamp, then Basecamp will assign the vehicle type / profile name of the profile that is currently active; - or it may set it up as a Custom route. But none of the original avoidance settings be retained - because they were never saved in the gpx file. Whether or not Basecamp remembers the settings that you entered for a previous custom route, I do not know. But it would be easy to find out.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
oldwobbler
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Re: Shaping points converting to way points

Post by oldwobbler »

Appreciate the replies.
Once I've completed working on a route (or a collection of routes for a trip) I save it to my hard drive. If I want to use part of a previous trip I can find it easily from the year its stored under. I also share the file with others via email. I've never been keen to build up lists of routes over the years in BC. But, it looks like I'm going to have to, for it to remember the stuff I want it to.
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Re: Shaping points converting to way points

Post by jfheath »

Two things that may help:

1) It is possible to backup the entire database so that you can restore it should the original become corrupt or deleted.
2) I create a new database every year so although I have loads of routes, the one in use by Basecamp contains only those for the current year. It is relatively easy to switch from one to another.

Happy to point you in the right direction if either of these become useful.
Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC
oldwobbler
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Re: Shaping points converting to way points

Post by oldwobbler »

Point 1 above, backing up the DB for BC would be good to know. Is it fairly easy to do?
jfheath
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Re: Shaping points converting to way points

Post by jfheath »

oldwobbler wrote: 23 Mar 2024 07:49 Point 1 above, backing up the DB for BC would be good to know. Is it fairly easy to do?

This is taken from the Basecamp manual. Let me know if you need to see it in action.


screenshot.jpeg
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Have owned Zumo 550, 660 == Now have Zumo XT2, XT, 595, 590, Headache
Use Basecamp (mainly), MyRouteApp (sometimes)

Links: Zumo 590/5 & BC . . . Zumo XT & BC