Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by rbentnail »

I did some experimenting on a very nice 330 mile ride yesterday. Here's what I did and the results:

I had posted earlier in this thread about different themes from the 595 working with the XT. Forget it. In theory, at home with the gps simulator on they work fine. In the real world they do not. There's a flash of change then it goes back to the theme selected in the XT. So for me right now there's no way to use custom themes.

I am typically a Shaping Points only guy. Since I do not use audio, there's no reason for me to ever use via points. In my mind using them just complicates the whole "skip a point" and "which point is which" issues when looking at a bare list of route points. But for the first time I used some via points keeping about every 4th point in my route as alerting. This as far as I can tell solved the whole "closest entry" conundrum I, Apox and others have found. But there's a trick. Do not use a place- a church, store, school or whatever way point- as a via point. Make sure your routing software uses a street address. Then you can find it on the list to rejoin the route rather than using CEP. Much better. The CEP to rejoin a route is as Apox and I describe in detail. Several times when I tried with it it kept wanting me to u-turn for 3-8 miles rather than join the route 1/2 mile directly in front of me. Twice it simply gave up with the "Cannot Calculate Route" message.

The whole track thing still escapes me. I still cannot see the track under the route unless I zoom in to a useless level, like as in 200 feet. If I zoom out to actually see where the route is going, the track is invisible.

Closed roads don't always show up, even with Garmin Drive app running. Had to make many u-turns to get across railroad tracks in one town.

What's with the XT religiously avoiding a small downtown area? Anyone figured this out? I come into a town on a major thoroughfare. I'm exiting town on that same major road. It's a straight line 6 blocks long but no matter what, the XT wants to route around downtown. In one small city it wanted me to make 8 different turns to avoid a 10 block straight-through road. What's up with that?

edit- clarified the via and way point uses, in bold.
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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by Peobody »

rbentnail wrote: 12 Jun 2022 04:18The CEP to rejoin a route is as Apox and I describe in detail. Several times when I tried with it it kept wanting me to u-turn for 3-8 miles rather than join the route 1/2 mile directly in front of me. Twice it simply gave up with the "Cannot Calculate Route" message.
When this happed to me, the end point was closest point yet it still tried rerouting me back to where I left the route. There is no excuse for not recalculating to the end point.
rbentnail wrote: 12 Jun 2022 04:18 The whole track thing still escapes me. I still cannot see the track under the route unless I zoom in to a useless level, like as in 200 feet. If I zoom out to actually see where the route is going, the track is invisible.
This idea is that if the XT recalculates, the track then becomes visible showing the original route.
rbentnail wrote: 12 Jun 2022 04:18 What's with the XT religiously avoiding a small downtown area? Anyone figured this out? I come into a town on a major thoroughfare. I'm exiting town on that same major road. It's a straight line 6 blocks long but no matter what, the XT wants to route around downtown. In one small city it wanted me to make 8 different turns to avoid a 10 block straight-through road. What's up with that?
The frustration with the absurd tendency of "faster time" to route to a major thoroughfare has been mentioned a lot. I think it is also the "faster time" algorithm that will route you 5 miles around a town rather than 6 blocks through it. It doesn't seem to consider that number of stop signs and traffic signals in those 5 miles does not justify avoiding the downtown stretch.
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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by rbentnail »

Peobody wrote: 12 Jun 2022 12:52
rbentnail wrote: 12 Jun 2022 04:18 The whole track thing still escapes me. I still cannot see the track under the route unless I zoom in to a useless level, like as in 200 feet. If I zoom out to actually see where the route is going, the track is invisible.
This idea is that if the XT recalculates, the track then becomes visible showing the original route.
Part of my problem was that when I left the route, the track could not be seen unless I zoomed way in, and then it was impossible to follow since I could not anticipate the turns. Different colors made no difference, setting width at max made no difference.


Peobody wrote: 12 Jun 2022 12:52
rbentnail wrote: 12 Jun 2022 04:18 What's with the XT religiously avoiding a small downtown area? Anyone figured this out? I come into a town on a major thoroughfare. I'm exiting town on that same major road. It's a straight line 6 blocks long but no matter what, the XT wants to route around downtown. In one small city it wanted me to make 8 different turns to avoid a 10 block straight-through road. What's up with that?

The frustration with the absurd tendency of "faster time" to route to a major thoroughfare has been mentioned a lot. I think it is also the "faster time" algorithm that will route you 5 miles around a town rather than 6 blocks through it. It doesn't seem to consider that number of stop signs and traffic signals in those 5 miles does not justify avoiding the downtown stretch.
I thought, even on the 595 b/c it did the same thing, that it would be nice if neither fastest time nor shortest distance could be chosen. Just route like a normal person, not someone intent on beating a clock.

So anywho, much of my testing was done from Asheboro to High Point, up NC66 to Danbury then west on NC268. The section between Wilksboro and Lenoir is particularly nice riding.
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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by Fxwheels »

rbentnail wrote: 12 Jun 2022 04:18 The whole track thing still escapes me. I still cannot see the track under the route unless I zoom in to a useless level, like as in 200 feet. If I zoom out to actually see where the route is going, the track is invisible.

What's with the XT religiously avoiding a small downtown area? Anyone figured this out? I come into a town on a major thoroughfare. I'm exiting town on that same major road. It's a straight line 6 blocks long but no matter what, the XT wants to route around downtown. In one small city it wanted me to make 8 different turns to avoid a 10 block straight-through road. What's up with that?
Just a weird question: did you marked track as "show on map"?
As for the fastest/shortest, I always put as many shaping points as possible to force the nav calculating the route the same way, be it fastest or shortest. Shaping points aren't announced and ignored if bypassed so you can set as many as you want.
As for the other shortcomings of the XT, I guess that for some longer then sooner time we'll have to live with them and look for ways around if possible.

Suggestion: have a spare nav with you just in case. I have several that I collected during the years. The best one is the Nuvi 1490. It using the old and simple software (has no shaping points, just vias which treated as shaping w/announcements and less annoying messages and different rerouting), yet works like a clockwork.
The "closest entry" works like a charm (actually it will ask if to start the route from the beginning - Y/N). Choose "N" and it will take you precisely to the nearest entry. It beats me why they didn't copy this logic over to the XT.
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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by Peobody »

Fxwheels wrote: 12 Jun 2022 17:06 Suggestion: have a spare nav with you just in case.
Good idea, if you have a spare. I don't. My backup is my phone, paper maps, and a paper list containing the address of my daily destinations.
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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by Fxwheels »

Peobody wrote: 12 Jun 2022 17:15
Fxwheels wrote: 12 Jun 2022 17:06 Suggestion: have a spare nav with you just in case.
Good idea, if you have a spare. I don't. My backup is my phone, paper maps, and a paper list containing the address of my daily destinations.
Get a Nuvi 1450lmt or 1490lmt for about $30 on ebay. Proven backup.
Not always you can have a paper maps everywhere you go plus following paper map is, mmm is distracted. Phone, IDK never liked that way, and it won't take custom routes.
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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by Peobody »

Fxwheels wrote: 12 Jun 2022 17:30 Not always you can have a paper maps everywhere you go plus following paper map is, mmm is distracted. Phone, IDK never liked that way, and it won't take custom routes.
A paper map in a tank bag worked me for a lot of years and miles. State maps are readily available in the U.S. (AAA membership helps). Detail is limited and navigation by map sometimes required a lot of stops for close-up looks, or asking for directions, but I always got where I was going. As for the phone, my experience with the GPX Viewer app was excellent. Dependence on cell service is a drawback though. Regardless, I'm comfortable that having both on board will work to get me to a destination if needed.
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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by lkraus »

rbentnail wrote: 12 Jun 2022 04:18 I did some experimenting on a very nice 330 mile ride yesterday. Here's what I did and the results:

I had posted earlier in this thread about different themes from the 595 working with the XT. Forget it. In theory, at home with the gps simulator on they work fine. In the real world they do not. There's a flash of change then it goes back to the theme selected in the XT. So for me right now there's no way to use custom themes.

I am typically a Shaping Points only guy. Since I do not use audio, there's no reason for me to ever use via points. In my mind using them just complicates the whole "skip a point" and "which point is which" issues when looking at a bare list of route points. But for the first time I used some via points keeping about every 4th point in my route as alerting. This as far as I can tell solved the whole "closest entry" conundrum I, Apox and others have found. But there's a trick. Do not use a place- a church, store, school or whatever way point- as a via point. Make sure your routing software uses a street address. Then you can find it on the list to rejoin the route rather than using CEP. Much better. The CEP to rejoin a route is as Apox and I describe in detail. Several times when I tried with it it kept wanting me to u-turn for 3-8 miles rather than join the route 1/2 mile directly in front of me. Twice it simply gave up with the "Cannot Calculate Route" message.

The whole track thing still escapes me. I still cannot see the track under the route unless I zoom in to a useless level, like as in 200 feet. If I zoom out to actually see where the route is going, the track is invisible.
...
I've been using the same theme (attached) from my 590/595 with the XT. It started as a theme I found in a forum, and then modified slightly over the years. I think the changes I made were mainly to allow for wider tracks and a different green in forest/park areas to improve contrast with magenta. The .kmtf file is copied to \zūmo XT\Internal Storage\Themes\Map.

It may also help to choose the "Widest" track option on the same wrench menu where you check the box to display on map.

Theme is zipped as several other formats were rejected by the forum.
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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by rbentnail »

Fxwheels wrote: 12 Jun 2022 17:06 Just a weird question: did you marked track as "show on map"?
Yes, I did. In fact I verified this several times as I simply could not see the track at all if zoomed out to a useful distance. Zooming way, way in I could see it if I were off route.
Fxwheels wrote: 12 Jun 2022 17:06As for the fastest/shortest, I always put as many shaping points as possible to force the nav calculating the route the same way, be it fastest or shortest. Shaping points aren't announced and ignored if bypassed so you can set as many as you want.
As for the other shortcomings of the XT, I guess that for some longer then sooner time we'll have to live with them and look for ways around if possible.
I'm a firm believer in the liberal use of shaping points. On yesterday's ride I had to insert 6 points to get straight through the small city I mentioned earlier.
Fxwheels wrote: 12 Jun 2022 17:06Suggestion: have a spare nav with you just in case. I have several that I collected during the years. The best one is the Nuvi 1490. It using the old and simple software (has no shaping points, just vias which treated as shaping w/announcements and less annoying messages and different rerouting), yet works like a clockwork.
The "closest entry" works like a charm (actually it will ask if to start the route from the beginning - Y/N). Choose "N" and it will take you precisely to the nearest entry. It beats me why they didn't copy this logic over to the XT.
I'm not that concerned enough to carry a second gps. The mounting and powering are all different and frankly, I don't want that crap hanging off my bike. I'm a minimalist, no thank you.
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Re: Frustrating last hour of ride with XT

Post by rbentnail »

lkraus wrote: 12 Jun 2022 20:30 I've been using the same theme (attached) from my 590/595 with the XT. It started as a theme I found in a forum, and then modified slightly over the years. I think the changes I made were mainly to allow for wider tracks and a different green in forest/park areas to improve contrast with magenta. The .kmtf file is copied to \zūmo XT\Internal Storage\Themes\Map.

Theme is zipped as several other formats were rejected by the forum.
None of the themes I have on file that work in my 595 will work in my XT. You said, "...and then modified slightly...". That may be the key but that is well beyond my techno capabilities.
lkraus wrote: 12 Jun 2022 20:30It may also help to choose the "Widest" track option on the same wrench menu where you check the box to display on map.
I verified this as well, several times. "Widest" was always selected.
Russ B. Zumo 595 & XT
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