Tread Changes Exisiting Routes - Shaping Point Issues

[Francis]

... If i'm reading this right, they're saying to not use external programs anymore?

I'm still using BaseCamp, connecting XT2 to my laptop with a cable and ignoring the incompatibility message It works fine.

[proofresistant]

... If i'm reading this right, they're saying to not use external programs anymore?

I'm still using BaseCamp, connecting XT2 to my laptop with a cable and ignoring the incompatibility message It works fine.

@Francis, then you are using a tried-and-tested work flow.
That's good, and if it works for you, you're not doing anything wrong.

However, if you want to copy routes to the XT2 wirelessly, as is state of the art today, then you will encounter the problems described here.

Ergo: do yourself a favor and avoid using the Tread app for transferring routes for as long as possible.

[BasPost]

So, finally managed to read through all the posts. I bought my XT2 about 1,5 years ago and initially blamed myself for not being able to operate the thing correctly, since this is my first GPS on the bike (finally got tired of stopping every other 10 km to look at the phone where I was going ) However along the learning curve it became clear it was not only me but mostly tread spoiling my experience. Most of the solutions given here are clear but I was wondering when MRA is used and the route exported via cable as GPX1.2 the shaping points are removed from the route but the via points are not? The route in the XT2 however stays as it was planned in MRA. Tried a route yesterday this way, with Tread connected but “swiped off” I believe that stops the sync?? I was able to ride the route yesterday with recalculations off. After the ride switched Tread back on and it synced the route but only showing a direct route to the waypoint and not the route as it was planned. Checked back on the XT2 but that was still showing the entire route as originally planned… So my question is it “safe” to use it this way? Or was I just lucky this time??? I would like to be able to use Tread if necessary since I won’t take a laptop with me this summer (or on any ride for that matter) and at least tread allows some limited route planning if I would like to do something different along the way… Also last year my XT2 started rebooting frequently, in the last ride 4 times within the last 5 km. Yesterday it did not reboot, not sure if this was because Tread was off or if this was solved with an update? Anyone any info on that? One last thing, when deleting routes from the XT2 they disappear from both the XT2 and tread as expected. However sometimes after a reboot they re-appear on the XT2 but after a sync don’t show up on tread?? I can delete the route again on the XT2 but the same will happen after a reboot, anyone any experience with this??

[Regain]

@BasPost everything you ask has befuddled many of us before and has been discussed on here at length so you would find it in a search.

However, here goes some of it. You can use GPX1.2 (unique to MRA) via USB but it does strip the shaping points, you need to disable auto-recalculate otherwise the XT2 may change the route if you wander off it and if you keep Tread installed, forget it unless you’ve used loads of via points as the two do not play nicely together. I’m not sure swiping Tread off the screen stops syncing, not when I’ve tried it anyway.

My advice is to use GPX 1.1, add plenty of strategic shaping points and check your imported route in Tread, before riding it, to compare it to your track. If it is, crack on.

I also keep Tread active as I like to plan when away. Sometimes, if in a hurry, I’m happy just to convert my track to a route on either Tread or the XT2. Routes planned in a hurry can be a bit fickle and not calculate without amendments.

Route’s reappearing. Yes they do. Keep deleting from everywhere. That includes from Explore (I also have that app on my phone) and from your MRA downloads. It’s a thing.

It’s a unit that does exactly what I need it to but there’s a lot you can get wrong in the learning process.

[smfollen]

@BasPost I removed the Tread App from my setup entirely a long time ago (deleted it from phone and factory rest the XT2).
I use Basecamp for route planning and Trip Manager to install routes, etc. onto my XT2.
Trip Manager should work fine with gpx files from MRA. I think the recommendation is to export gpx 1.1 rather than 1.2.

Unless things have changed recently, the Tread App will sync regardless of whether it is "swiped off", and if it syncs, it can change your routes. As far as I know, if you have ever allowed it to sync, the only way to stop it is to delete it from your phone(s) / tablet(s) and reset the zumo.

Reboots can be caused by poor power connections, among other things. You can find posts about that on the forum.

[BasPost]

I don’t think it’s a power issue, when you loose power it usually gives a message before it switches off and with these quick reboots it doesn’t do that. Anyway my question was more regarding the 1.2 which I only recently started trying. I read somewhere the route is more regarded then as a track but with the viapoints, since tracks don’t get altered by Tread (in this case it did get altered on the phone but not in XT2 ) it sounded like a safe option and was just wondering if anyone had more experience with it. Some viapoints are nice to have during a trip (to plan stops for example). Something you don’t have when just using a converted track. I don’t really mind loosing the shaping points as long as the route stays fixed…

Something else I found interesting (at the time annoying) a while ago I was playing with two routes with GPX1.1 from MRA loaded separately into the Tread app, but although the viapoints were correct as mentioned in this forum the shaping points got mixed up from both routes. I had seen before it would change shaping points within a route but not that it would “borrow” shaping points from another route…

For now I will try some other 1.2 routes and otherwise revert to the option mentioned above to load 1.1 from MRA with going back and forth until I have a match while keeping Tread…(or just convert a track)
Thanks for the quick replies…

[proofresistant]

... lso last year my XT2 started rebooting frequently, in the last ride 4 times within the last 5 km. Yesterday it did not reboot, not sure if this was because Tread was off or if this was solved with an update? Anyone any info on that? One last thing, when deleting routes from the XT2 they disappear from both the XT2 and tread as expected. However sometimes after a reboot they re-appear on the XT2 but after a sync don’t show up on tread?? I can delete the route again on the XT2 but the same will happen after a reboot, anyone any experience with this?? ...

Hi @BasPost

Like some others, you are experiencing occasional problems with the Tread app synchronization.

Sometimes, it appears that the Tread app synchronization leads to (subjectively observed) endless loops.
I think this also explains the crashes and reboots.
You should also notice that the zumo XT2 then runs significantly slower.

Another indication is the repeated reappearance of deleted routes.
During synchronization with (subjectively observed) endless loops , countless duplicates (trip files) are stored in the internal memory.

PS
The Tread app also synchronizes in the background. You can only prevent synchronization by disabling the Bluetooth connection, or by installing the Tread app without Explore, but then you won't be able to transfer routes with it.

[smfollen]

@BasPost It may help you to sort this out if you take things one step at a time. You probably already know some of this, but I'll try to be explicit for clarity.

First, consider what MRA exports. It can export routes, tracks of both.

A track is a fixed thing defined by a very large number of track points. It will never change.

A route is a much more flexible thing defined by a relatively small number of route points*, which may be a combination of via and shaping points.
A route exported in 1.1 format will include both via points and shaping points.
A route exported in 1.2 format will include via points but not shaping points.

When a gpx file containing a route is imported to something else, whether it be Tread, the zumo, Google, or whatever else one might chose, the imported route starts with whatever MRA exported.
If 1.1 was exported then whatever imported it will start with a route based on both the via and shaping points.
if 1.2 was exported, then whatever imported it will, of course, start with a route based on only the via points.
In other words, a route in 1.2 format is less well defined than a 1.1 route.

Even for 1.1, after import to some other device or software, the route may not match the original MRA route because of differences in maps, routing algorithms, routing preference (e.g. faster vs shorter) and avoidance (e.g. highway, ferry, unpaved road) settings. This is the general nature of digital routing. It has nothing to do with any particular software or device.

Note that routes exported by some software and some devices also contain route point extensions a.k.a "hidden" or "ghost" points. Those are the results of routing calculations. They help draw a route on a map and are used in converting a route to a track, but they are not used in calculating or re-calculating a route. That is why an imported route may look fine immediately after import, but will change on re-calculation.

If a route is exported from MRA in 1.1 format and is imported directly to the XT2, without Tread being involved in any way, then the XT2 will keep and honor both the via and shaping points. The same will be true for import to almost any route planner, except the Tread App.

If Tread is involved directly, or if Tread is allowed to sync, then the shaping points may change resulting in potentially significant route changes. Neither MRA, nor the XT2 are to blame for this. My theory is that the explore database, which is what Tread syncs with, simply does not support shaping points.

Bottom line: If you want your MRA planned routes to remain intact, export the 1.1 format and do not allow the Tread App to sync.
---------
* In Garmin and gpx terminology, routes are made up of route points, not waypoints. Waypoints are saved locations - a.k.a. favorites.

[Oop North John]

PS
The Tread app also synchronizes in the background. You can only prevent synchronization by disabling the Bluetooth connection, or by installing the Tread app without Explore, but then you won't be able to transfer routes with it.

I had to reset my XT2 and then synched it to the Tread app a couple of days ago. On previous versions of Tread I was asked if I wanted to use Explore, on this install the sync with Explore was done without me being asked if I wanted it, or not. That is, the "Enable Storage" was not a choice. That's on Android 3.00.6.

[BasPost]

Hmm disappointing to read it still syncs in the background. And yes I did have the feeling it was slower last year. In the winter I rebooted it through an on screen option menu giving four options (not sure how I got there), there was one option which deleted everything I guess with that lost my settings but it did appear operating faster afterwards. Now maybe thinking of using a Micro SD card reader with the iPhone USBc port and a Micro SD card to at least get routes from MRA to the XT2 without a computer and loose Tread after all