How to recalc route on the fly

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sussamb
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by sussamb »

These numbers are confusing. My understanding was that a route can contain up to 29 via points, and it's only if there are more than that then a route is split? Shaping points can be more numerous, can't find the Garmin spec on this but have always known it to be up to 125 shaping points between any 2 viapoints.

As I never get anywhere close to the shaping point figures I cannot confirm that figure but have checked the 29 viapoints in the past. Earlier Garmin models would take up to 50 viapoints in a route. This article agrees with the 125 shaping points number

https://touron2wheels.wordpress.com/201 ... waypoints/
jfheath
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by jfheath »

You are probably correct. I am not at home so don't have my notes at hand . I have probably assigned the 29 to the wrong type of point.
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Fxwheels
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by Fxwheels »

sussamb wrote: 14 Oct 2021 06:34 These numbers are confusing. My understanding was that a route can contain up to 29 via points, and it's only if there are more than that then a route is split?
Yes. If you're trying to load a route with over 29 via points, Zumo will either split it into two routes, or convert all vias into shapings with only Start and End points. Your choice.
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by Fxwheels »

BTW, did you know?
You can set the Route Preference for each individual route differently. You can set your main preference in the general settings like, say to Faster time. Yet while in your route, clicking on the wrench in the upper left, you set the preference without overriding it in the main setting.
So say you're following your custom route. It was set to Adventurous Routing, or Shortest Distance, etc. After it ends (or you got tired) you decide to go straight home. Cancel the route and click on Home. You don't have to reset from Adventurous back to Fastest as it's already Fastest in the general settings. Cool.

Another cool thing is the Off-Route recalculation.
Say you mistakenly passed a turn. Automatic recalculation will let you know you missed it and will get you back on route.
But, what if you purposely went off road. In this case you can preset the recalculation option to Off so it won't annoy you to get back on the route.
Now, what if sometimes you want the nav to get you back on, and other times you don't want to? You may not always remember where it stands, or don't want to go back and fore messing in the setting, especially while riding? just set to Prompted and you decide what you want to do at that particular section. Nice.
Fxwheels
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by Fxwheels »

I must add that although I like the "Prompted" recalculation option, I've noticed that it takes some time for this prompt to react and leave the screen after I clicked on it. Even if clicked several times. It does reacts as the "buttons" changing to orange, yet still sitting on the screen. In the meantime blocking the view.
Anyone had this problem?
BTW, When prompted if to bypass a via point, it has the same issue, just the message box is smaller.
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by jfheath »

@Fxwheels - It's nice to read your reports of what you are finding out about the XT.

Can I ask, is this your first satnav, or if not, what have you owned before ?

Please don't assume anything from that question - I spend a lot of time trying to explain things to people and it is very rare to find out how someone reacts to a new-to-me feature. Keep them coming in - your comments are so positive and are good to read.
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BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone
CollingsBob
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by CollingsBob »

jfheath wrote: 30 Jul 2021 17:47 If you go off route and Off Route Recalculation is allowed, then the Zumos will immediately recalculate the current section of the route. That is, from where you are now to the route point that is the next one in the list - ie to where it was trying to take you anyway.
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If the next route point is a Shaping Point (ie will not announce on arrival and shows up as a blue disc on the map), and you keep ignoring the instructions to take you to it, then the Zumo will stop trying to get you to go back to it IF any of the following happens.
1) You join the original route AFTER the missed shaping point
2) You press the skip button
3) Some later models prompt after you have ignored a couple of instructions - do you want to skip the next point.

It will only take you to the end of the route if you have no more route points between where you are now and the end point !

If the next point is a Via Point, then all of the above is true - except point number 1. The later Zumos (after 660) will not let you ignore a Via Point by just joining the route after the Via Point. It will take you back to it. But the other comments from 2) onwards all apply to Vias.
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If that is not your experience, then the chances are that you have done something wrong at the start of the route - like you have chosen the end point when asked to select the next destination at the start - or Basecamp has some of the options in Edit / Options / Device Transfer ticked.

A common error is to have a route consisting of Start, End and a load of Shaping Points. But no other Via Points.

When you start the route, the Zumo asks you to slect the next destination. It gives you two choices. The start, and the End. That's it.
It doesn't give any more choices, because that screen will only list Via Points - and you haven't set any. If you had, they would be listed as well.

So what do you choose. The answer is the start. But if you have already passed the start when you set off, then the stanav will try to get you to go back to it. And if you have autorecalc turned off, the satnav just goes quiet. The magenta line is taking you back to the start point which as you take your feet off the ground is about 10 metres behind you, but you carry on ahead. Following a magenta line which it isn't following becasue you have ignored the instruction to go back tot he start. And with autorecalc turned off, it isn't going to say a word. The trick is to put the start at a point a mile or so up the road - somehwere that you will definitley ride through once you have set off. Always select the start point when you say 'Go'.

The other mistake, which I reckon everyone makes at some point, is to think -"Well I am already at the start. So I'm heading to the end next.?"
Wrong. Zumo regards the 'next destination' as meaning the next Via Point. You don't have any except for the start and the end. And you've just asked it to take you to the end. Which it does. It gets you there using the current Zumo settings. Motorcycle, Faster time (probably). And it ignores all of those shaping points that were designed to make your road trip of a lifetime.

Anyone who says that there are no shaping points or that the route recalculates to take you to the end has invariably misunderstood exactly what they have asked the Zumo to do.

(Note to MRA users. For a long time, MRA had two gpx formats v1.0 and v1.1. One of them created routes with all shaping points. One of them created routes with all Via Points. I believe that this has led to some having lots of issues with Zumo routing. They seem to be working on this now, and the 1.1 Beta version creates both Vias and Shaping Points. The tear drop symbols are the shaping points. The hand held up (as in 'Stop') symbol represents a stopping place - a Via Point. Click on the point to get the menu to change it from one to another.)


Final Point. Some later Zumos (I know the 595 and the XT do this) will recalculate every section of the route if you press skip at any time. The route still passes through the same route points in the same order (except the one you have just skipped), and it will probably claculate the same route that it had before if you have placed your shaping points carefully. But it may introduce other variabls like traffic info, your riding preferences that have built up, and how fast you ride on certain roads. Stuff like that. I do not know for certain what info it makes use of but those are my current suspicions.

I think having a track displayed as well as the route is the best way (for me) of keeping me up to date with route changes. The track stays put, even if the route changes.
I guess, then..that I should go into the multi-day route that I made and add some Via points…
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Fxwheels
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by Fxwheels »

jfheath wrote: 02 Nov 2021 07:12 @Fxwheels - It's nice to read your reports of what you are finding out about the XT.

Can I ask, is this your first satnav, or if not, what have you owned before ?

Please don't assume anything from that question - I spend a lot of time trying to explain things to people and it is very rare to find out how someone reacts to a new-to-me feature. Keep them coming in - your comments are so positive and are good to read.
Thank you jfhealth.

I'm with Garmins since probably 2008 or so. The most successful Garmin to me was car's Nuvi 1450 and 1490. (Difference is 1490 has phone connectivity and displays data like elevation, time of day, miles to finish, etc... right on the side of the screen if you like. I still have it for backup as they're proven in the "battle".

I also used Garmin Montana 660. I loved the photo function where you can make a picture of the location and navigate to it later just by clicking on the pic. I also loved the Reverse the route option where you can just reverse it and ride the route in the opposite direction any time later on. It has tons of different functions for nautical and hiking, off-road track navigation... but as a street navigator it is not so eh, good.

Now, the Nuvi 1490 have an older operating system. The navigating software is perfect but not as let's say, as sophisticated as the current one. Yet it does the job well. It does not know about shaping points and treating via points as shaping points with announcing them yet not insisting on visiting.

After my multiday trip to upper Appalachia I decided to go with Zumo as my trusted Nuvi got slow to upload and old tech, whereas Zumo offered many other useful features and functionalities I can use, and it's better with gloves. Sure Zumo's new operating system and software is a cut above. However it takes hands-on experience and tests to know what it does best and its corks. There're only two Zumos left on the Garmin site" the 396 and the XT. All in all they're good navigation devices and I guess there is nothing better on the market today, yet both aren't 100% perfect and have room for improvement. My routes are rather complex with many shaping points, turns and whatnot, and until I started to trust Zumo, I always had two devices navigating the same route.

Today I use only Zumo for navigation and know its strong and weak points and how to go around them if needed. None the less I like to have 2 units on a bike: one for navigating, and the other for tracking my progress on the bigger scale (map area), mainly to see where I am in relation to the route, the general area around me, and whatnot.

Sorry for may be a long answer :).
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by jfheath »

Fxwheels wrote: 02 Nov 2021 21:03 I'm with Garmins since probably 2008 or so. The most successful Garmin to me was car's Nuvi 1450 and 1490. (Difference is 1490 has phone connectivity and displays data like elevation, time of day, miles to finish, etc... right on the side of the screen if you like. I still have it for backup as they're proven in the "battle".
I'm sure that you have discovered this but just in cse - the XT, 590, 595, 660 will all do this. On the XT map view. Click the 3 dot button, choose Trip data. Any of the 4 buttons ont he right are configurable. There are a different set of buttons saved for car, bike, following a route, not following a route. ETAs and 'distance to' are available for Vias, not for shaping points.

Fxwheels wrote: 02 Nov 2021 21:03 I also used Garmin Montana 660. I loved the photo function where you can make a picture of the location and navigate to it later just by clicking on the pic. I also loved the Reverse the route option where you can just reverse it and ride the route in the opposite direction any time later on. It has tons of different functions for nautical and hiking, off-road track navigation... but as a street navigator it is not so eh, good.
I've never seen the Montana. The previous Zumos had a reverse route facility. I haven't found one on the XT. All you can do is change the sequence of the various route points by hand, but that requires a better memory for where the points were in the first place.
Fxwheels wrote: 02 Nov 2021 21:03 Now, the Nuvi 1490 have an older operating system. The navigating software is perfect but not as let's say, as sophisticated as the current one. Yet it does the job well. It does not know about shaping points and treating via points as shaping points with announcing them yet not insisting on visiting.
Fxwheels wrote: 02 Nov 2021 21:03 Sure Zumo's new operating system and software is a cut above. However it takes hands-on experience and tests to know what it does best and its corks. There're only two Zumos left on the Garmin site" the 396 and the XT. All in all they're good navigation devices and I guess there is nothing better on the market today, yet both aren't 100% perfect and have room for improvement. My routes are rather complex with many shaping points, turns and whatnot, and until I started to trust Zumo, I always had two devices navigating the same route.
I agree completely. One good technique for this is to have a track and a route displayed on the screen at the same time. That way you get to see where the satnav wants you to go in magenta, and if it goes a different way from the plan, the track underneath becomes visible. A black track works well for this. The track doesn't alter. It helps to build up a picture off how the XT decides it is going to change your route, and whether or not you want to do what it says.

A lot of what I have learned in the same way that you have is now posted on this site. Its a 'sticky' - the very top post in the Zumo XT forum.
Or if you want - PM me an email address. And I'll send you a personalised pdf copy - but I've just discovered something else that I want to put in it. I'll keep the site up to date with new changes, the pdf - once it has left my hands I cannot alter it or add to it.
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Fxwheels
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Re: How to recalc route on the fly

Post by Fxwheels »

jfheath wrote: 03 Nov 2021 17:10 I agree completely. One good technique for this is to have a track and a route displayed on the screen at the same time. That way you get to see where the satnav wants you to go in magenta, and if it goes a different way from the plan, the track underneath becomes visible. A black track works well for this. The track doesn't alter. It helps to build up a picture off how the XT decides it is going to change your route, and whether or not you want to do what it says.

A lot of what I have learned in the same way that you have is now posted on this site. Its a 'sticky' - the very top post in the Zumo XT forum.
Or if you want - PM me an email address. And I'll send you a personalised pdf copy - but I've just discovered something else that I want to put in it. I'll keep the site up to date with new changes, the pdf - once it has left my hands I cannot alter it or add to it.
Yes, I've put a track under my route. Since I had lots of shaping points the track was, I'd say 95% agree with the route. On one occasion the track led thru a closed off dirt road where the route went around it, and on another occasion the route went around a small town instead of through it.
Maybe they'd be 100% agree if I didn't have "Avoid unpaved" and "Fastest time" in Zumo settings. Had I had, say, "Shortest distance", the route would take me through the town as well. But I don't really care as long as I'm ok with the route. It takes really few seconds to check the route on the unit even before you go and compare to the track under it. (BTW, I changed it to green and I like it).
As for the reversing the route... I don't know why they removed it if the feature was already there. Garmin acting in a strange ways. You can follow the recorded route back, or a track if you have one, but w/o spoken direction.

Thanks for the sticky with lots of related info. I'll sure be reading it from time to time to check on ever changing software.

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