Unable to calculate path

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Milu23771
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by Milu23771 »

Most of the test routes I produced were on asphalt, but yesterday I created one that included some Off Road sections, but, apart from the problem of the closest point, once there it made me navigate all the waypoints in sequence. Good news, in the afternoon I calmly set myself, following the precious advice of Jfheath, to respect Basecamp and Zumo and finally the routes created can also be reached from the nearest point. Hi and thanks to all
TripleThreat719
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by TripleThreat719 »

I frequently attend Dual Sport and Adventure motorcycle events where GPX files are provided for each day's ride. Here is my preferred method with the XT. I have Garmin Drive and Garmin Explore loaded on my cell phone and utilize them as the software tools to get a GPX file onto the XT.

This is all done wirelessly without physically connecting the XT to anything...

NOTE: Make sure you have Recalculation turned off on your XT

Loading the GPX file onto your XT...
  • Get access to the GPX file on the phone (via text, email, or via a website download).
  • Share the GPX file with the Explore App (if you don't know how to do this... you use the share icon on the phone and then select the Explore App using the more ellipsis (or three dots ...) to select the Explore app from the list of applications you can share the file with.
  • Have the XT within range of the phone and turn it on.
  • The Garmin Drive app will automatically connect with the phone (assuming you have the bluetooth connection established between the XT and your Phone and you have the Drive App configured to connect to your XT) and share the GPX file with the XT (wirelessly).
  • Once the file is on the XT, select the Track Icon on the XT.
  • Select the two push pins with the dotted line in between them in the upper left corner to access saved tracks.
  • Select the track you are wanting to use.
  • Click on the wrench in the upper left corner of the screen.
  • It's at this point that you can choose "Show on Map", "Set Color", "Rename" or "Convert to Trip"
I typically Set my Color for the track and set it to Show on Map first.
I like to keep the track displayed on the map just to verify that the saved trip is not deviating from the GPX file.

Converting the GPX file to a Trip...
  • Select Convert to Trip
  • The XT will ask you to select...
  • Start to Finish or Finish to Start
  • If you intend to run the track in the direction the designer intended, select Start to Finish.
  • The XT will then ask you to Name the Trip (and will default to the name of the Track) - I usually just add the word Trip to the end, just to keep them straight in my own mind.
  • You will then get a message that your Trip is now saved to Trip Planner.
Accessing the Trip you just created...
  • From the main menu of the XT select the APPS icon.
  • Next select Trip Planner
  • Select Saved Trips
  • Choose the Trip you just created
  • You will get a warning message that "Editing this trip will discard the current route settings and calculate a standard route".
  • Click OK and that will take you to a screen where you can hit the GO button.
The XT will now follow the track and provide turn-by-turn directions (audio and on-screen), along with countdown distances in the banner just like you are running a route.

The XT will follow the original path of the GPX Track accurately (remember, in order for the XT to follow the track accurately - YOU MUST KEEP RECALCULATION OFF).

If the GPX file takes you off-road, the XT will tell you to "Leave the Road" and turn-by-turn directions will stop and you will just have to follow the line on the screen, until you return to a known roadway, where turn-by-turn directions will resume.

Besides the quality of the screen, this is by far the best feature of the XT based on the way in which I utilize it when attending motorcycle events where GPX files are commonly shared.
Last edited by TripleThreat719 on 01 Dec 2020 00:49, edited 1 time in total.
jfheath
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by jfheath »

Wow!

That is a very clear description. Thank you.

I have dabbled briefly with all of those things you mention, trying to get a result, but failed to piece them all together into a logical sequence. Reading through your post, it all makes sense. (I have less determination to make it work as I don't ride off road, but I want to know how it all pieces together).

Do you have the TOPO map as well as the navigable road map selected when riding a trail ?
ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone
TripleThreat719
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by TripleThreat719 »

City Navigator and TopoActive Maps that came with the XT are typically displayed when I ride.

BTW, the process described above seems like a lot. I can complete all the steps in under 2 minutes if I have the GPX file available on my cell phone. It's really quite slick...

On one of my last events, I was riding with a group of four, and the person who was leading us started running the track in reverse (easy to do when just following the track line when the track is a loop that starts and ends in the same location.

I was able to open the track, convert it to a trip "From Finish to Start", and save it as a new trip, open the Trip Planner app, select the new "Reverse" trip and hit go all while riding. I then had turn by turn directions and banner countdown of the track the way we actually ended up riding it...

It really is a slick feature if you use tracks a lot when you ride...
jfheath
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by jfheath »

Yes - I can see that. I could do all of the bits - the problem that I had with it was (like most things with new Zumos), missing a key concept.

Basecamp cannot have the Topo Map on the PC - they have to be accessed from the XT.
The Explore Website, will not plot a route like Basecamp does. It requires a series of points. Which measn that the satnav has to calculate the route between the points. I could not get the satnav to do this.
Creating a track seemed to be the way to go. The Basecamp maps will not plot a route along most trails. Yet the OSM maps will calculate a route along some trails. I decided the easiest way was to create a track by joining up the dots myself and having that displayed on the Zumo screen.

And it was that bit where I lost the will to live. What was the point ?

It was that bit that I was doing wrong. The idea of creating a track and having Zumo turn it into a route is something that you just would not consider doing for a road route. But doing that and turning off the auto recalc makes complete sense - it can then navigate you.

The sharing facility on the explore site also makes sense now. Having joined up the dots on a pretty good contour map which shows the paths and tracks, it makes sense to be able to share the resulting route or track from there rather than messing around with BT or SD cards.

Using the route planning on road, you need only as many route points as is required to pin the route to particular roads. The rest the Zumo works out if you wander of course.
Off road, you have to draw the track yourself with short straight lines - unless like some of the OSM maps, Basecamp will eventually plot a route along tracks and trails.

I need a route with bigger hills to see any advantage of the 3D birds-eye rendering though !
ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone
Milu23771
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by Milu23771 »

What a sight, starting to know this device you realize that perhaps it is really well done. But I wanted to ask you more experienced than me, if by turning the imported track into a route, you can somehow keep some intermediate Waypoints, or the journey will necessarily be beginning-end. Hi guys and thanks for the info
TripleThreat719
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by TripleThreat719 »

This gets a bit complex and you need a fairly good understanding of the differences between waypoints, track points, shaping points, tracks and routes... If you are unfamiliar with those things, and how they work, I would suggest that you study these things first, to help you understand what the GPS is doing internally.

A Track is simply a collection of points that end up creating a line, when connected together, that displays on the map. A track displayed on the map of the XT is not navigable with turn by turn directions, it is simply a picture on the map that you "follow" by looking at the map and riding to follow it. Different GPS models have different limits for Routes, Waypoints, Geocaches, Waypoints within a Route, Track Points within a Track, etc. The XT limits are as follows: Taken from the Garmin Support Site https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=O ... s61OhANsf5

When sending or creating files for the zumo XT, keep in mind the following limitations:

Unlimited GPX files-*
Unlimited waypoints-*
Unlimited geocaches-*
Unlimited routes-*
Maximum of 200 waypoints per route
Unlimited saved tracks-*
Maximum of 10,000 points per track
2,000 archive tracks
Each GPX file can contain a mixture of waypoints, geocaches, routes, and tracks. If the GPX file containing a waypoint or geocache is deleted, the waypoint will no longer be available on the device. When utilizing routes, only 50 points can be used for on-road navigation.

* Contingent on the fact that the device has enough storage space

Tracks are utilized for Adventure and Dual Sport events because the purpose of the event is to travel a specific set of roads or trails in order to experience the ride, scenery, and challenges the originator intended, not simply to get from point A to point B in the most efficient way. In fact, it is typically the least efficient way to get from point A to point B, and seeks out gravel, double or single track trails, fire roads, specific landmarks of interest, water crossings, etc.

In a typical GPX file that contains Track Information for an adventure or dual sport motorcycle event, the originator of the track will typically insert waypoints along the track that identify specific features the rider may want to be aware of. Those features may include, but not be limited to: water crossings, dangerous conditions such as a steep incline/decline, rough terrain, extremely hard or technical section of trail, the start of a bypass (which typically helps you avoid a more difficult section), gas stops, restaurants, photo opportunities, historical landmarks, topographical features, etc. These waypoints are typically designated with a specific type of icon (perhaps a Red X for a water crossing, etc. as determined by the originator of the track - they typically stay consistent throughout the track so the rider can identify what is coming up ahead of them by simply looking at the icon). The XT has a very limited number of icons that you can choose from when creating waypoints on the device, and in the absence of the Explore App, they all end up being a rather generic looking green square, and therefore are fairly useless for Adventure and Dual Sport motorcycle tracks. Basecamp allows a much larger selection of custom icons and If you utilize the Explore App when importing the GPX file, the waypoints transfer over with the custom icons. You have to configure the settings on the XT to show "Up Ahead" items and include Waypoints as being visible on the map for them to show up.

These waypoints become a part of the GPX file when the originator exports the track to a GPX file. However, they are not points that are "routed to", they just appear on the map and their location is determined by their GPS coordinates. They are a part of the GPX file, but independent from the track. They can be searched, located, and "routed to" because they have specific coordinates, but they are not part of the track.

Part of the beauty of the XT is the ability to convert these tracks to Trips (which then are navigable and provide turn-by-turn directions). When converting a track to a trip, (remember Recalculation must be off for it to remain accurate to the intended path of travel), the GPS includes every track point in the track as a "shaping point" which forces the route to follow the track as it was designed or recorded by the originator. With recalculation off, the GPS will then create a trip that follows the track points accurately and utilizes the track points as shaping points for the trip that gets created. The GPS is not looking at the start and end and then utilizing the settings you have established as preferences for routing to create a route between the two points. It is also not looking at the waypoints that are included in the GPX file, it is simply displaying them on the map based on their GPS coordinates.

A lot of people do not utilize a GPS in this manner. They simply enter in a destination and follow the route that the GPS generates to get there. Those of us who utilize our GPS units to navigate a predesignated and planned set of roads are much more interested in the journey than we are the destination. It's the ride experience that is most important. Tracks are a convenient way to share that experience with others and ensure that they are following the same path you intended/designed for the event.

Don't get me wrong, I also use my GPS to get me from point A to point B in the most efficient manner by letting it create my route when I am in my car or truck and simply need to get someplace unfamiliar to me. But, when riding a motorcycle, I typically plan a very specific set of roads/trails that I want to take, and utilizing tracks is a very effective way to do this.

The same kind of thing can be done (on a more limited basis) when creating routes by placing enough waypoints (that you route to as a "next stop", or "next destination" in the route to force the route to take specific roads, but it requires that the route be made up of known roadways in the mapset that you are utilizing, whereas tracks do not require roads. Additionally, if you happen to miss a waypoint that is embedded in a route (perhaps due to a detour from construction or an accident), the GPS may try to route you back to that missed waypoint. Details about how you tell the GPS to "skip" a waypoint in a route vary and I won't try to cover those here. A trip, converted from a track, will not attempt to re-route you to a missed track point (if you have recalculation off) like a route will.

Another nice feature of the XT is the Track Recorder function. If you happen to be out scouting roads/trails to utilize for an event, you can have the XT record your track as you ride. That track can then be imported into BaseCamp for refinement, to add detailed waypoints, etc.

Everyone uses their GPS for different purposes, and sometimes people cuss the device for not doing what they want it to do without having a deep enough understanding of how the device works. I have found, that through a bit of dedicated study and sometimes experimentation, I can accomplish most things I want on the XT. Plus, the screen is just beautiful to look at...
jfheath
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by jfheath »

Many thanks for that @TripleThreat719
I'm also looking into the issue that @Milu23771 seems to be having.

I'm glad that you have been able to confirm that the Waypoints in a typical off road route are not actually part of the route itself - they just appear on the map and these can be turned on or off in one of the Zumo Menus.

Another possibility to replace these is a POI - a Point of Interest - a bit like a speed camera can alert you when you get within a specified distance from it. They don't have to be anywhere near the route. The last time I played around with these was years back when I had my 660 - you could link a wav file to a POI so that when you got to within 5 miles (say) of a particular feature, you could get the satnav to play a recorded message about that feature. I played around witht hem for a few weeks,a nd then decided to spend my time on more exciting things. But I was fascinated by the possibilities. A guided tour on a stanav ? I don't know if that feature has been retained.

Now I have managed to replicate one of Milu's problems. That of the satnav wandering off by itself in a straight line, ignoring the route.

I tried to follow the sequence of creating a route on the Explore website, and synching the route with the XT. All OK, that works fine.

But using the Explore created route doesn't work when navigating to it.
Converting the route to a track on Explore doesn't work when navigating to it.
Converting the track from Explore to a route puts a route into the Route App, but when you load it, none of the little blue circles are present.

I have yet to find a way of getting the original route from Explore into a place in the XT that will allow me to convert that to a track and back to a route - to see if that works.

When I used a route that I created on Basecamp converted it to atrack on Basecamp and sent that to the ZUmo, the zumo would convert the track to a route and it would have a load of intermediate, blue circle points defining the route. When this happened, and I ran the simulator, the satnav would navigate along roads to the start of the off road route, and seamlessly navigate the route from that point on.

SO that goes back to an earlier question - how are the tracks created that are shared for people to use their XT to generate a route. Because as fas as I can see, the Explore app is no use for doing this. I may be missing something, but that's what I seem to have found out today.
ST1300A9 - Currently: Zumo 590/5 and Zumo XT - Previous: Zumo 550 and Zumo 660.
BTM03 module to provide Bluetooth link to Autocom. XT paired up to Android Smartphone
Milu23771
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by Milu23771 »

Ciao Jfheath, se ti può essere di aiuto, mi sono accorto che durante la simulazione la freccia vaga per campi e per mari, solo se sono disabilitate le city navigatore. Con le CN attive, il cursore segue perfettamente il percorso.
Milu23771
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Re: Unable to calculate path

Post by Milu23771 »

Hi Jfheath, if it can help you, I realized that during the simulation the arrow wanders for fields and seas, only if the city navigator is disabled. With the CN active, the cursor follows the path perfectly. Excuse me, i forgot to translate

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