Zumo XT2 - Software v 6.60

[jfheath]

I'm putting this topic here to make it easier to find for later subsequent searches.

I spotted a query about custom POI display. V6.60

Very quick test of my own POIs. They show up on the map when you break the perimeter - at the same time that the sound is played and the picture is displayed. They disappear a short time afterwards - I guess when they leave the perimeter.

I note an option in Custom POIs - for my own set called TourGuide - There are 3 options: Off/Auto Play / Prompt
It may have been there before, but I do not remember it. This is in Settings, Driver Assistance, Proximity Alerts, choose POI list

This little test made me wonder - what if there isn’t a perimeter set, or a picture, or a sound file.

For reference, I made two guides regarding the creation of ‘Tour Guide style POIs’ and Standard POIs.
viewforum.php?f=34

Trip Manager has a facility for making standard POIs from Waypoints - with just a tick in the appropriate box.
TripManager Links

[jfheath]

Has the 6.60 software solved the RUT issue ?

RUT behaviour seems to be triggered when an imported route is recalculated - eg after pressing skip. Subsequently, if you wander off route, the route seems to behave more like when navigating a track that has been converetd to a trip - ignoring route points and it calculates a way to get to the closest point of the remaining route. This notion is backed up by the fact the Tracks converted to a trip also display RUT behaviour - if you turn away from the route at 90 degrees.

I do not want a route to behave like that. I want the route to calculate a new way to the next route point. As it did with the Zumos before the XT1 and as it does with a route that has been built using the Zumos trip planner facilities.

First Test Observations on the XT2 with version 6.60 of the system software installed.

My tests for RUT behaviour are :

1. Route points for which you ignore the navigation instruction are removed from the route.
2. Track Log becomes fragmented.
3. With U Turns turned off, the route uses side road - 'turn back loops' to get you to go back. The Zumo calculates only to the last turn back loop leaving the evidence on the recalculated route.
4. The 'Skip List' contains the route points that have already been visited.
   Repeated U turn requests are a symptom. They are only evidence when they become inconsistent with the Zumo's routing alrgorithm.

The route map - click the image to see a larger version:

Norton Test Route Overview Map.png (220.93 KiB) Viewed 122 times

The route has ShPt1 just after the start. This is there purely so that I can press skip to force the route to recaclulate. This seems to be one way that RUT behaviour can be triggered.

ShPt2 is placed on a road that I do not intend to travel. Instead of taking the 2nd exit at the rouandabout to ShPt2, I will take the third exit (UK, traveling clockwise around roundabouts) - ie heading East.

Via Point 3 merely forces the route away from a fast route along the M62 to the south of the map. I will pass through this point.

The only other point is the End Point. The Magenta route is the way Basecamp has planned it and is the way that the XT2 calculates it. I know that it will want to make me take the A1. It is faster and more direct. Nevertheless, I will take the route shown by the cyan (light blue) line.

[jfheath]

Test1 - Disappearing Route Points.

ShPt1 was skipped. That is the trigger for the behaviour that follows - the nature of the route has changed.
ShPt2 was still present and the route was navigating towards it before I entered the roundabout.

XT2 v660 RUT Test 1 - 00.png (191.31 KiB) Viewed 104 times

On exiting the roundabout, the route altered and Shaping Point 2 - which had been on the B6160 / Addingham - has been removed from the route

XT2 v660 RUT Test 1 - 05.png (210.04 KiB) Viewed 104 times

This particular behaviour, consistent with RUT behaviour is still present.

[jfheath]

Test 2 - Fragmented Track Log


This is an observaiton rather than a test. It has happened with every route that I have tested that has displayed RUT behaviour and not with any route that has not displayed RUT behaviour. It has not happened with manually recorded tracks - only the automatically recorded CurrentTrackLog tracks. Each break coincides with when the route is recalculated.

Did my Test display a broke track log ?

Yes it did. Click the map for a more detailed image.

XT2 v660 RUT Test Broken Track Log.png (49.5 KiB) Viewed 111 times

These are the locations where it repeatedly tried to get me to go back to the A1(M) to the west. Most of these are typically not RUT behaviour, they are a legitimate request to go from where I am now, to the road that provides the fastest route. Most, but not all. But the track log is broken neverethless.

This behaviour - at the same location - can be seen as two videos of the XT1 screen at the link below.

Ignoring Shaping Points
Saved Route - Missing Shaping Point - Skip Involved
Imported Route - Missing Shaping Point - Skip Involved

(The links will replace the current page - to open the link an a new tab instead, right click and open in a new tab or window.)

I checked this behaviour when I first got the XT2 - it was identical, so I never bothered to get any evidence.

So this behaviour has not changed on the XT2 with version 6.60 of the software.

[jfheath]

Test 3 - Checking for Sensible Behaviour and turn back loops.

Tests on the XT1 were carried out a good while back and documented here.
(Again - right click the mouse if you wish to open in a new window.)

This illustration is exaclty the same test that I am carrying out today, and that first page reveals three of the turn back loops that remain in plotted route to reach the end. At this point, the end was three miles from my current posiiton, but the XT1 was taking me back north - following its trail of breadcrumbs - the turn back loops to get to where it had wanted me to joing the A1 south in the first place. This same route was tested on the XT2 when I got it and similar if not identical behaviour was observed.

I need to look at the route map again:

U Turn Map.png (500.54 KiB) Viewed 88 times

There are 4 places where I deviated from the Zumo's plotted route:

Red Rectangle. To avoid busy traffic lights. Broken track log, but the navigation continued ahead - no fuss.

Orange Rectaangle. Many serious attempts to get me to go back. 13 according to the number of broken segements - which sounds about right. But this is not RUT bahaviour. As I drove along it tried different roads to get me to head back to the A1 - initially junction 45, later junction 44. Eventually it decided junction 42 was a better alternative - which is more or less the way that I was heading. Despite the number of U turn requests and take a different road requests - this is NOT RUT Behaviour. The Garmin is Correct, I am not going the faster way, it is updating constantly and at each point finding the faster way from my current position. This is correct behaviour.

Green Rectangle. Almost within reach of Junction 42, Instead, I take the A63 heading East, and it goes bonkers.
Now I know this road from previous tests. If I simulate my position on the A63 anywhere in the green rectangle and aske the XT2 to plot a route to my end location, it will head west to junction 42 to get onto the much faster A1(M). So although it is not the way I want to go, it is the better route given the routing that I have set it to use (ie Faster Time). I was getting repeated requests to either U turn or take a loop back route. Ten of them for the netx 3.5 miles. But again - this is NOT RUT behaviour. But after the village of Hambleton - where the green box ends - if I set my position East of Hambleton (in the blue box) it will navigate to the east as the faster way.

It gave two more requests to turn back and then less than a mile after leaving Hambleton, it navigated ahead.

Now - although I say it is not RUT behaviour where the Blue box and orange box is drawn, it could have been. It would do the same thing if it was. Exaclty the same. So I stopped at the side of the road and looked at the route that it was plotting to take be back to the A1(M).
It was not heading back to Junction 44, or to Junction 43. It was heading to Junction 42. That isn't RUT behaviour - RUT behaviour would take me back to Junction 42. Some of the turn back requests were not U turns, they were loop back using a side road requests. If this was RUT behaviour, I would be able to see them on the route.

Below is one such turn back loop shown while the satnav is navigating. This is yesterday in the middle of Hambleton.

XT2 v660 RUT Test 1 - 24.png (110.62 KiB) Viewed 81 times

And the screen a short distance later after the route had calculated to the next U turn request.

XT2 v660 RUT Test 1 - 25.png (79.85 KiB) Viewed 81 times

The next image is the preview screen shorly after the previous screen. I stopped and zoomed out as far as I could and still retain the detail. You can see the tail of the motocycle icon on the road above the A63 road marker. You can also see the road where the turnback loop was plotted. The route no longer shows the turnback loop - even though at this stage the route is aiming for a U turn.

XT2 v660 RUT Test 1 - 26.png (157.46 KiB) Viewed 81 times

The above three are contrary to previous tests where the turnback loops have remained - primarily because the Zumo was calculating only to the point where it last asked me to turn back. It tagged this new short section of route onto its previous route. Which is why it could never escape from RUT behaviour - it wasn't even making an effort to calculate a new route. It was only tagging a bit to get you back to where you were.

This can be seen from a different test taken on the XT1 in December 2022

XT TurnBack Loops - Preview Screen.png (353.29 KiB) Viewed 81 times

This behaviour has very definitely changed. Although the decision to continue ahead came after the tipping point - in Hambleton where it becomes faster to continue ahead, there were only 2 U turn requests before it navigated ahead - about 1 mile.

This is not ideal, but it is different. Comapared to the XT1 - which when after setting the mImported bit to fool the Zumo into thinking the route was created on the XT1 - that calculated the way ahead as soon as I started riding down the A63 away from the A1. That is 4 miles before where the XT1 indicated the location of the tipping point, and 5 miles before The XT2 v6.60 decided to continue ahead. 5 miles is a long way if you are going in the wrong direction. But I don't have any records of the XT2 following this route with a corrected route from a gpx file.

I need to run this again on my favourite test location - but currently the road is closed for another 7 days. This route has worked well - but there are far to many other variables. eg it was Saturday. It was Bank Holiday weekend. There are too many alternative roads available. My riding style had changed ('cos I was in the car !)

There is something odd about the XT2 offereing a mixture of turn round loops and U turns. I could not establish a pattern. I thought it had given up on U turns at one point, repeatedly asking for turn round loops, then it would throw in a few U turn requests.

I'm suspicious because an early 'fix to the RUT issue was to reduce the number of U turn requests to 2. After that it had to use side roads and housing estates. Curiously - using a roundabout to turn back counts as a U turn, probably because you are going back on the same road ! So If you disable U-turns it will not turn you back using a roundabout !!

It is progress - but Track logs are still broken, route points (seem) to be ignored if you cannot get to them after RUT is triggered by using the skip feature, and on this single test, it did not perform as well as a test I had carried out a while ago on the XT1 on the same test route as an imported gpx file that had its mImported byte changed.

But I don't regard one test as being conclusive.

[jfheath]

Test 04 - U Turns Not Allowed.

Placeholder. I have no results for this. I have to perform the same test again on another day.

[giuseppe66]

Very thanks for your time!! So it's not solved or 50% solved the problem

[FrankB]

@jfheath Thanks for taking the time John!

Honoustly it would have surprised me if they would have fixed it for the XT2, but not for the XT3. Or at least sooner for the XT2 than the XT3. I did a test a few weeks ago with my XT3 and it definitely showed the same RUT behaviour as my XT did a few years ago. Applying the 'mImported fix' still works for the XT3. Note that there was no firmware update for the XT3 since I did the test.

[Regain]

@jfheath also thanks for looking at this. I’m slightly confused though (not uncommon!). Your ShPt2 at Addingham vanished and was ignored, I believe you’re saying. Surely that is a good result as the XT2 didn’t try to get you to u-turn back to the roundabout and then it plotted itself back on to the route ahead. Likewise with the A1(M) southbound which is actually the plotted route. If I’m missing the point here, happy to be enlightened as I have previously encountered what I think is this problem.

I’ve recently been really impressed with the XT2 performance with routes built outside of but subsequently synced with Tread. And that was before this update. It even routed me perfectly around a section of closed road and back on to the route when it could easily have taken a more direct route to my next via point.