Experience with Tread app on an M-series Mac

[proofresistant]

Has anyone confirmed the "moving via/shaping points" issue is independent of having traffic enabled on the GPS and the related manual/automatic optimize route setting on the same GPS settings screen?

Shapings are being moved. Whether there is traffic information or not has no influence.

[proofresistant]

What is the current recommendation for consistency? Use Basecamp or MRA or something else and import gpx files directly into the XT2 and not use Tread to sync?

That's right, from experience I can confirm that you should avoid using the Tread app for route synchronization with shapings.

Instead, save the GPX files with routes directly to the SD card or via USB and import them.
However, it is even "a little bit" much better to use TripManager for the transfer. TM runs on Windows and writes directly to the zumo XT2 internal Trip files, which is what the import function does otherwise.

That's right, from experience I can confirm that you should avoid using the Tread app for route synchronization with shapings.

Instead, save the GPX files with routes directly to the SD card or via USB and import them.
However, it is even better to use TripManager for the transfer. It runs on Windows and writes directly to the zumo XT2 internal Trip files, which is otherwise done by the import function.


If you already have experience with BaseCamp, feel free to use BaseCamp.
However, it is certainly not the best choice for beginners.
MRA or kurviger.de are probably more suitable.
I myself still use the “good old” but thoroughly proven Tyre2Navigate.

[abowen500]

I have just been doing some testing with the behaviour of routes and route points in the XT2 with and without Tread being installed.

The changes seem to be dependent on a number of issues.
Whether route points are shaping or Via Points
Whether or not route points are created as Waypoints first and then set to via or shaping.
Whether or not Tread is allowed to synch with the XT2.

The pages following the link below describe these tests.

XT2-P350

Basically route point names always alter unless they were created as Waypoints first.
The Tread App will alter the positions of shaping points and the route.

Via Points generally stay in the same location even if Tread is actively synching.

If Tread is synching, Waypoints set as shaping points will move the route and the shaping points, the waypoint is no longer on the route.

If Tread is Synching and Waypoints are used to create Via Points - the via points keep there name and the route and via points remain in the same place.

Maybe. ie route points are not always moved significantly. Route points don't always change their name. The route isn't always altered.

Observed in different tests. But if a via point is changed to a shaping point on the Tread App, the point is often moved, taking the route with it onto a new road. The Tread app has an undo button. Undo the operation and repeat the same thing - the behaviour is different.
This suggests that there is some 'random' behaviour happening - or two programmers are writing different code with different rules.

Thanks for your message jfheath. I've seen this behavior with Tread sync enabled with stops/vias on one of my routes. Within Tread, I can't imagine any history or journaling or changelog is maintained when a via point is changed to a shaping point. I've seen references in this thread and others that the Explore database does not support or store shaping points, but yet shaping points are available within Tread (up to 10 between stops/vias) so I believe something else is happening. Perhaps the lat/lon precision is being reduced to 3 or fewer decimal places, or roughly hundreds of meters instead of 5 decimal places or approx 1 meter, when a point is converted. Without having access to the internal data this is not possible to determine, but points should only be moved when a route is recalculated. When and where do route recalculations occur? On the XT2 and in the Tread app. Are routes ever altered solely on the XT2 when waypoints are changed from stops/vias into shaping points? I'm sure someone has tried this.

Has someone experienced the route being correct on the XT2 but recalculated and changed within the Tread app (before syncing back to the XT2)?

[abowen500]

What is the current recommendation for consistency? Use Basecamp or MRA or something else and import gpx files directly into the XT2 and not use Tread to sync?

That's right, from experience I can confirm that you should avoid using the Tread app for route synchronization with shapings.

Instead, save the GPX files with routes directly to the SD card or via USB and import them.
However, it is even "a little bit" much better to use TripManager for the transfer. TM runs on Windows and writes directly to the zumo XT2 internal Trip files, which is what the import function does otherwise.

That's right, from experience I can confirm that you should avoid using the Tread app for route synchronization with shapings.

Instead, save the GPX files with routes directly to the SD card or via USB and import them.
However, it is even better to use TripManager for the transfer. It runs on Windows and writes directly to the zumo XT2 internal Trip files, which is otherwise done by the import function.


If you already have experience with BaseCamp, feel free to use BaseCamp.
However, it is certainly not the best choice for beginners.
MRA or kurviger.de are probably more suitable.
I myself still use the “good old” but thoroughly proven Tyre2Navigate.

Thanks proofresistant. I will probably return to Basecamp and/or MyRouteApp, but that process is clunky and cumbersome. It's pretty much the same method going back to the late 90s when I had my GPS III+ and early 2000's with a StreetPilot and storing routes online/in the cloud and having them sync seamlessly is the future. TomTom had this right starting in 2015, but they weren't perfect either.

[abowen500]

The only "true" alternative here would be BMW's ConnectedRide, which is based on TomTom... but it too is very limited in what it can do.

There are many other alternatives in my opinion, but these are Android-based.
Then you need something like a rugged outdoor tablet or a DMD device or something with Carplay or Android Auto.
But that's a different topic altogether

I've looked briefly at cheap CarPlay and android auto units. My phone overheated, my battery ran down, there are more variables in these setups, the app interface is limited by CarPlay/android auto and has less features than the native app, the interface buttons are way too small to operate with gloves, and the navigation apps may work well for the car but are not quite there yet in my opinion for motorcycle navigation.

DMD is a product to watch. Two weeks ago they released their online route planner which is pretty good, a work in progress, and will only get better. Being android based, though, I still find the interface suboptimal for motorcycle use.

[proofresistant]

... I will probably return to Basecamp and/or MyRouteApp, but that process is clunky and cumbersome. ...

You're right, but ultimately it will work reliably.
I myself would also like to be able to transfer files “simply” via Bluetooth, I try a lot (too much), but I haven't given up hope yet.
Unfortunately, I keep coming back allways until yet, to the “good old” workflows.

The only "true" alternative here would be BMW's ConnectedRide, which is based on TomTom... but it too is very limited in what it can do.

There are many other alternatives in my opinion, but these are Android-based.
Then you need something like a rugged outdoor tablet or a DMD device or something with Carplay or Android Auto.
But that's a different topic altogether

I've looked briefly at cheap CarPlay and android auto units. My phone overheated, my battery ran down, there are more variables in these setups, the app interface is limited by CarPlay/android auto and has less features than the native app, the interface buttons are way too small to operate with gloves, and the navigation apps may work well for the car but are not quite there yet in my opinion for motorcycle navigation.

DMD is a product to watch. Two weeks ago they released their online route planner which is pretty good, a work in progress, and will only get better. Being android based, though, I still find the interface suboptimal for motorcycle use.

Cell phones can overheat.
But you shouldn't generalize about overheating!
There are many parameters to consider. New flagship cell phones can perform very well without getting too hot.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to compare experiences.

Yes, and the required battery consumption is also logical. But you can get that under control too, either with a power bank or a power supply from your bike, possibly paired with QI wireless charging.

I myself always have my old Galaxy S10+ active as a backup. I can then always see the track separately in the 2D view at the top, which helps more than you might think. Never any problems, just once a day I need to connect to the power bank.

However, I completely disagree with you about the apps. They are almost perfect for motorcycles. DMD2, Kurviger Calimoto, MRA OSMand, and countless others.
Everyone will find something that works well for their needs.

CarPlay or Android Auto are not my choice either. I don't want to be restricted in how I use them.

Besides DMD, there are others and many more are coming. "Really good suitable" cell phones, small rugged tablets, or special motorcycle Androids.

[proofresistant]

... I've seen references in this thread and others that the Explore database does not support or store shaping points ...

Even if I am repeating myself because I have mentioned it so often.
I cannot confirm that!

I have observed that the chapping points also exist in the Explore DB, both in the device and in the Explore cloud on the web.
But you can't see them, at least not at first view

Has someone experienced the route being correct on the XT2 but recalculated and changed within the Tread app (before syncing back to the XT2)?

Yes, even routes that worked perfectly in XT2 were manipulated by the Tread app in the background, without being asked, so that they could no longer be used as planned.

[Lanso]

A bit unrelated....

There's like three active topics on the Tread app.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to merge into one big one?

[proofresistant]

A bit unrelated....

There's like three active topics on the Tread app.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to merge into one big one?

Done by smfollen 21 Aug 2024
viewtopic.php?t=3007 "Tread Changes Exisiting Routes - Shaping Point Issues"
or (other) parts also in:
viewtopic.php?t=2573 "Latest XT2/Tread software version"

But you're absolutely right, so many comments on this topic are confusing

Unfortunately, not everyone has an overview of all the existing threads on this topic, so questions keep coming up in different places.

Not answering “new” questions that have already been discussed elsewhere is not ideal for the person asking the question.
And honestly, I personally avoid tips like, “use the search function ore this link XY, we've already discussed this topic.”

[smfollen]

... points should only be moved when a route is recalculated.

No user input provided to any software or device should ever be changed except by explicit user action.
Via and/or shaping points specified by the user, whether by gpx file or direct interaction with the software or device should never be changed unless the user changes them. Any software or device that moves, renames, or changes the type of any route point without explicit user action is broken.

On route recalculation, the path between user specified points may change, based on map, routing algorithm, and user settings for preference and avoidance, but the route should always pass through every unchanged user specified point.

Are routes ever altered solely on the XT2 when waypoints are changed from stops/vias into shaping points

I have seen points move slightly, but not significantly, when changed from a via point to a shaping point on the zumo itself.

Has someone experienced the route being correct on the XT2 but recalculated and changed within the Tread app (before syncing back to the XT2)?

An interesting question but I don't know how to test this because the sync seems to happen as a single operation. A route which is on the XT2 only would have to get transferred to the Tread App during the sync and checked there before the Tread App sync'd with the Explore database.
I have never seen, nor heard report of, a route in the Tread app being changed without sync. I would guess that the route change occurs during the sync with the Explore database, but it is only a guess.

Based on limited testing I did long ago, it appeared that during the sync process, the route is re-calculated based on only via points, ignoring the original shaping points, and then new [effectively useless] shaping points are added to that new route. I would need to do more testing to verify that however.