Zumo XT2 - Making it Work for You

[Wenzudeg]

Just to clarify only the first part of your post:

So if I plot a route on BC making sure that same maps which are on device are used on BC, having the same activity profile as the device with the same avoidances of the device (have always plotted like this since it always seemed logical to me to do it this way) does NOT force the device to recalculate ONLY IF the gpx is sent to the SD card? If that gpx file is sent to the internal memory? Does the device then recalculates the route?

All my previous Garmin devices showed the message "Recalculating the route" but then again, I doubt if I ever sent any route to the SD card in 15+ years using Garmins. And, as you rightly pointed out, the message might not mean that it is ACTUALLY recalculating the route although I have caught the Zumo 395 on a few occasions, deviating from the route plotted on BC. In fact I tend to check and compare each route after recalculation. Lately this recalculation was very very slow on the 395. That's why I thought that it is on its way out.

[FrankB]

Trip Manager is best explained by @FrankB - but I'll do my best.

I couldn't have done it any better.

But the last time that I looked - a good few weeks ago now, Trip Manager was unable to calculate the route.

Not sure what you meant with this though. Trip Manager doesn't calculate routes.
Perhaps you meant the XT2 was unable to calculate a route sent by Trip Manager? If you can reproduce that, and dont mind spending your time, I would like to dig into that.

[jfheath]

So if I plot a route on BC making sure that same maps which are on device are used on BC, having the same activity profile as the device with the same avoidances of the device (have always plotted like this since it always seemed logical to me to do it this way) does NOT force the device to recalculate ONLY IF the gpx is sent to the SD card? If that gpx file is sent to the internal memory? Does the device then recalculates the route?

Yes - if the map that you used on BAsecamp is different from the map on the Zumo (of any type), then the zumo WILL recaclulate the route.

Avoidances don't have any part to play in this scenario. The Zumo doesn't know what avoidances you set in Basecamp. But if the Zumo does recalculate the route and you had ferries avoided on one and ferries allowed on the other THEN you will get very different results.

But the routing algorithm on the XT2 is very different from that on Basecamp.

Where the gpx file is placed make very little difference to the routing - internal or SD card. But if you put it into Internal Storage, the Zumo finds it when it is imported and it 'does stuff' with the information. It imports the waypoints and the tracks. And then it deletes the waypoint definitions and the tracks from the gpx file. So you cannot import them again.

It makes sense therefore to put everything onto the SD card. I do not think that it has any bearing on whether or not the route is calculated. Sorry if that was confusing. I don't expect that it does, but I don't know for certain. I was just commenting that if you want to avoid problems then use the SD card. I don't think that I said it like that though.

All my previous Garmin devices showed the message "Recalculating the route" but then again, I doubt if I ever sent any route to the SD card in 15+ years using Garmins. And, as you rightly pointed out, the message might not mean that it is ACTUALLY recalculating the route although I have caught the Zumo 395 on a few occasions, deviating from the route plotted on BC. In fact I tend to check and compare each route after recalculation. Lately this recalculation was very very slow on the 395. That's why I thought that it is on its way out.

If it says recalculating the route, then that is what it is doing (but I don't think I have ever seen that message). If it says calculating it could be just processing - or it could be calculating the route. Normally about 10 seconds when first loading is not the route being recaclulated . That often takes much longer - eg >30 secs.

I always create a track of my route and display the track as well as the route. Then if it recalculates, I just follow the track until the nav decides I am going the right way !!

[jfheath]

But the last time that I looked - a good few weeks ago now, Trip Manager was unable to calculate the route.

Not sure what you meant with this though. Trip Manager doesn't calculate routes.
Perhaps you meant the XT2 was unable to calculate a route sent by Trip Manager? If you can reproduce that, and dont mind spending your time, I would like to dig into that.

I wasn't meaning that it was supposed to calculate the route but was unable to. I meant that I don't think that facility was built into it.
I know that was the case - when I was last involved - but with these leg issues, pain and pain killers and feeling generally tired, I've not even tried to keep up to date. And I know that you keep tweaking it and adding improvements. I've not downloaded one for a while.

But I've got a new machine to ride. (And can't ride it). And I've managed to wire in the camera and the satnav.
And I have been sitting on chairs rocking them side to side with my arms out trying to imagine sitautions and teaching myself not to countersteer. It has been too wet/cold to take it out since before Christmas. Leg is now ok and continues to gain strength, but the rest of me is still slowly mending.

[FrankB]

I wasn't meaning that it was supposed to calculate the route but was unable to.

All clear now, thanks for clarifying.

TM isn't able to calculate a route, and probably never will. The V1.7 that is now being developed will have the option to open a trip, or gpx route in Kurviger. Kurviger can do the calcualation, but like MRA it is unable to provide a subclass, so upon loading the result in the XT(2) it will start to recalculate.

Like you I'm slowly preparing for a new season of driving. So TM will get less of my attention. That's good, that's why do it!

All the best, and many happy miles for you.

[Francis]

... Loading a Basecamp route into the Zumo XT2 does not force the route to be recalculated - but you do have to make sure that:

• You have used the same maps in Basecamp that you have installed on the XT2.
• All of your route points are accurately placed in valid locations - on a road for example, rather than in a field next to a road.
• That you have not altered your navigation preferences recently. Once that flag is set - it is likely that the Zumo will always recalculate - since Basecamp does not have the same routing preferences as the XT2.
• That you put the GPX file onto the SD card.

...

I completely agree. In addition to the XT2, I'm keeping the old Zumo 340 so I can download new maps to BaseCamp.

[jfheath]

I've put together a number of tests to illustrate the behaviour of routes imported as GPX files to the XT2.

I am really curious to know whether or not the XT3 has solved these issues. The tests are easy to carry out. Just load the route and see what the Zumo shows - you don't have to set it running. I'll post some info in the XT3 section.

Link to a new section 5

Spoiler alert - this page contains the results !

01 Route with only Shaping Points

• No Tread - most route points may be renamed, very small relocation, route remained intact.
• Tread - most route points renamed, route points significantly altered, route moved to another road.

02 Route with only Via Points

• No Tread - most route points renamed, very small relocation, route remained intact.
• Tread - route points renamed, very small relocation, route remained intact.

03 Route with only Waypoints set as Shaping Points

• No Tread - route points not renamed, very small relocation, route remained intact
• Tread - shaping points renamed, shaping points relocated, route is significantly altered

04 Route with Waypoints set as Via Points

• No Tread - route point names unaltered, very small relocation, route remains intact.
• Tread - route point names unaltered, very small relocation, route remains intact.

BAsically, if you want the XT2 to keep the names of route points, you have to create them as Waypoints first.


** By very small relocation - I mean VERY small. The lat/long values were different in the 3rd decimal place of the minutes value - which works out to be less than 2 metres from the original points. This is probably due to reductions of the number of decimal places for the final point. Often computers will work with a very large number of decimal places in order to ensure the accuracy of the final value. But 2 metres is plenty good enough - less than the width of one side of a road.

By 'significantly altered' I mean that the route point was moved onto the M6 and/or the route was moved to the M6

[Wenzudeg]

So in an attempt to prove that, after setting the route going, I pressed skip, and agreed to select the next route point. That removes the route point from the list and recalculates the entire route. It still uses the remaining route points to do this, but it will probably come up with different roads. Certianly in this case as there are no shaping points.

At last managed to have some free time to do a test run with XT2. Planned route on BC with Shaping and Via points and deliberately planned it in a way that I knew I will not be following on at certain points of the route. Sent it to device through Trip Manager. Kept Recalcalculation Prompted on device and chose always not to recalculate on this test run. Route stayed pinned, although I THINK that there was a very small part of the route that got redrawn differently but I still need to recheck.

My question though regards the Skip function.

Am I correct in observing that the Skip function proposes to skip next route point, be it Via or Shaping Point?

How does the device recalculate after the Skip function? Does it recalculates ENTIRE route, to the next route point (be it Via or Shaping) or to the next Via?

[jfheath]

My question though regards the Skip function.

Am I correct in observing that the Skip function proposes to skip next route point, be it Via or Shaping Point?

How does the device recalculate after the Skip function? Does it recalculates ENTIRE route, to the next route point (be it Via or Shaping) or to the next Via?

Skip does indeed skip the next route point - whether that is a via or a shaping point. It then calculates the entire route, passing through the remaining route points.

However there is also an “Edit route” facility which gives you the option of skipping the next shaping point or the next via point. Your choice. Whoever dreamed this up must have been on work experience or something - because it doesn’t tell you which comes next, and it gives the name that the Zumo has substituted for the one that you gave it.
Whatever - you can judge for yourself. With the route running, tap the 3 bar menu in the bottom right hand corner. Then select 'Edit Route'. THat gives (amongst other things) the option to skip the next via/destination or the next shaping point. Selecting any of the items on that display will result in the route being recalculated using the remaining points.


What happens after skip is pressed is fascinating. For imported routes - ie those imported from gpx files placed on the sd card or internal storage - the Zumo does not calculate a normal route. It calculates something that behaves more like a track that has been converted to a trip. Shaping points and via points are largely irrelevant. If you pass through them and then tap the skip button, the ones that you have passed have not been removed from the ‘skip list’. If you don’t pass through them because you detoured perhaps, the points are just ignored and are removed from the map.
And of course, if you veer away from the route such that it asks you to turn back, and ignore that the RUT behaviour develops.

Non of that happens if the route is created on the XT2 screen, or if it is ‘nobbled’ or copied to make it a ‘saved’ route, or if the route is created with Trip Manager from a gpx files placed. I can point you to videos of the above happening but I’m not going to attempt that on my iPad. It never works out well!

Bottom line - avoid using skip on imported routes. If you must, then stop whenever you can, restart the route and select closest entry point.

Or better still use Trip Manager, or use a copy of your route rather than the original - using the Copy command on the XT2 screen.

Note that I have never tested this behaviour if Tread Synch is enabled. I suspect that it behaves very much like a ‘saved’ route in which case you can skip route points to your hearts content. But since I do not allow Tread to synch, I’ve never bothered to find out how ‘skip’ behaves.

[Wenzudeg]

My question though regards the Skip function.

Am I correct in observing that the Skip function proposes to skip next route point, be it Via or Shaping Point?

How does the device recalculate after the Skip function? Does it recalculates ENTIRE route, to the next route point (be it Via or Shaping) or to the next Via?

Skip does indeed skip the next route point - whether that is a via or a shaping point. It then calculates the entire route, passing through the remaining route points.

However there is also an “Edit route” facility which gives you the option of skipping the next shaping point or the next via point. Your choice. Whoever dreamed this up must have been on work experience or something - because it doesn’t tell you which comes next, and it gives the name that the Zumo has substituted for the one that you gave it.
Whatever - you can judge for yourself. With the route running, tap the 3 bar menu in the bottom right hand corner. Then select 'Edit Route'. THat gives (amongst other things) the option to skip the next via/destination or the next shaping point. Selecting any of the items on that display will result in the route being recalculated using the remaining points.


What happens after skip is pressed is fascinating. For imported routes - ie those imported from gpx files placed on the sd card or internal storage - the Zumo does not calculate a normal route. It calculates something that behaves more like a track that has been converted to a trip. Shaping points and via points are largely irrelevant. If you pass through them and then tap the skip button, the ones that you have passed have not been removed from the ‘skip list’. If you don’t pass through them because you detoured perhaps, the points are just ignored and are removed from the map.
And of course, if you veer away from the route such that it asks you to turn back, and ignore that the RUT behaviour develops.

Non of that happens if the route is created on the XT2 screen, or if it is ‘nobbled’ or copied to make it a ‘saved’ route, or if the route is created with Trip Manager from a gpx files placed. I can point you to videos of the above happening but I’m not going to attempt that on my iPad. It never works out well!

Bottom line - avoid using skip on imported routes. If you must, then stop whenever you can, restart the route and select closest entry point.

Or better still use Trip Manager, or use a copy of your route rather than the original - using the Copy command on the XT2 screen.

Note that I have never tested this behaviour if Tread Synch is enabled. I suspect that it behaves very much like a ‘saved’ route in which case you can skip route points to your hearts content. But since I do not allow Tread to synch, I’ve never bothered to find out how ‘skip’ behaves.

Thanks jfheath!

I have a vague idea that with the 395LM whenever I deviated from route I tended to stop the route, check my next Via on screen and then select it when prompted from the Via list of that particular route. Forgot why I developed this habit but I'm sure that it was related to how the 395LM recalculated after deviating and selecting auto-recalc.

The 395LM had another thing which really bothered me: it (re)calculated through unnavigable roads in it's quest for Fastest route! Really frustrating going through 1.5m wide streets/paths, probably unpaved and navigable only with off-road vehicles. Have I read somewhere on this forum that the XT2's algorithm prioritizes Fastest roads rather than Fastest route? Is this maybe something related to this behaviour which I just described?

I am trying to understand the reason/s WHY Garmin engineers designed the XT2's software the way they designed it because I cannot believe that such a reputable company cannot find a way to make the device work the way many of us want it to. Would be interesting to list ALL the 'abnormal' behaviours one should not expect from a gps device and then see, if there are, the reasons WHY it was designed to behave in these 'abnormal' ways. Perhaps it would help in managing the device more efficiently.