Shaping points enigma

For everything Garmin Zumo 590/595 related
sussamb
Posts: 773
Joined: 23 Apr 2018 13:06
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 138 times
Great Britain

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by sussamb »

Others might want different behaviour though so it needs to cater for everyone not just how you want it to behave.
jcinoz
Posts: 9
Joined: 14 Aug 2020 09:01
Australia

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by jcinoz »

You may well be right but I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. :)
I‘m not a gambler and I don’t want to get into an argument with anyone but I’d be willing to wager most people, when selecting a planned trip, would want the default behaviour to be to follow the route I’ve told it to take. There may well be cases where you want to do something different, and those cases could certainly be catered for with menu options, but I’m just saying I think that following the planned route should be the default behaviour

Don’t get me wrong. I want to like the 595, I really do. I want to feel about it the same way I felt about the 660. It was intuitive and straightforward to use and I could trust it to take me where I wanted to go. The fact that someone has had to create a separate document describing how to get the 595 to actually follow a route you have planned in Basecamp would seem to suggest it just isn’t an intuitive interface. Thanks to him, and to you, I feel like I can probably get the route planning to work although it make take me a while to have the same level of confidence that I had with the 660 that the route won’t get recalculated when I least expect or want it to.
sussamb
Posts: 773
Joined: 23 Apr 2018 13:06
Has liked: 18 times
Been liked: 138 times
Great Britain

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by sussamb »

I think most manage to use Trip Planner without a problem. Those having most difficulty were used like you to the older Route Planner, and it's true they work differently. Personally I prefer the way trip planner works and particularly like shaping points
rbentnail
Posts: 310
Joined: 18 Jun 2018 10:14
Location: North Carolina USA
Has liked: 19 times
Been liked: 52 times
United States of America

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by rbentnail »

jcinoz, you sound just like I did when trying to route with the 595. It simply would not do it for me. Having come from a simpler, more intuitive model to the 595, for a long time I felt like I had purchased an expensive useless paperweight. Over time and with the help of a few folks, I learned that it is not the unit. The problem was me. By changing just a little the way that I do things in Base Camp I am able to follow with confidence the routes I make. The 595 will do what you want it to but you have to make concessions none of which is in reality that big a deal. Much of what I list below has been discussed in detail in this (and maybe a couple other) thread. I suggest you re-read this thread particularly.

- when starting out, give the 595 plenty of time to find satellites;
- NEVER make your starting point where you are. Put it down the road a bit;
- I make my destination my actual finish point so START and DESTINATION are never the same point;
- do not put via or shaping points on intersections;

And the most important single thing for the 595 to be successful at what you're asking it to do:

- after you finish creating your route step back and ask yourself what another member asked me, "if you remove any one point from your route will the 595 change the route?" If so, you're not using enough shaping points. This was the hardest thing for me. Coming from an immensely more intuitive device it was like it knew where I wanted to go. The 595 is more like it's slower cousin and has to be told what to do. It's not better or worse, it just places its priorities for routing preferences differently.
Russ B. Zumo 595,
2007 USA Yamaha FJR1300A, 133k and counting
jcinoz
Posts: 9
Joined: 14 Aug 2020 09:01
Australia

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by jcinoz »

Thanks for the assurances rbentnail. I totally realise I will have to change how I plan routes in the future. I guess my beef is that all I want when I start a route that I have imported from Basecamp is to have the option to just follow it The fact that I can’t do that seems like a glaring omission in functionality to me. It’s literally the only thing I want the unit to do. I don’t care about playing music, making phone calls or finding the local cinema. I just want to be able to follow a route I’ve planned using the manufacturer’s own software. That really doesn’t seem like an unreasonable request to me.

Thanks to the help I’ve received from the great people on this forum I think I will be able to mostly get it to work, albeit using techniques that could only be described as hacks. I appreciate that all of you have been using them for some time now so perhaps they don’t seem as bizarre to you as they do to me at the moment.

I think my only unresolved concern is what happens if I stop somewhere that isn’t on the route. If I see an interesting looking road there’s a good chance I might head up it for a bit to check it out. If It takes me to a nice spot beside a river I might decide to stop for a while to enjoy it. When I start up again (the unit will have powered down in the interim) I don’t think I can ride back to where I turned off and just have the navigation continue from there. The way I understand it my only option is to recalculate a fresh route to the next via point totally ignoring any previously placed shaping points. And it’s highly unlikely I will have placed a via point near enough to where I randomly left the route to not run the risk of missing significant portions of my planned route. At this point I think my only option is to view the map rather than starting the route and then scroll and zoom while I’m riding until I get near enough to the next via point that a recalculation won’t change the planned route. That’s not only an annoying experience - it’s downright dangerous!

To reiterate, all of my issues/concerns would be resolved if there was simply an option to keep following the planned route from wherever I am on it. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable request.
rbentnail
Posts: 310
Joined: 18 Jun 2018 10:14
Location: North Carolina USA
Has liked: 19 times
Been liked: 52 times
United States of America

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by rbentnail »

For your route, make sure to use VIA points and not SHAPING points. VIA points you can route to from wherever you are, SHAPING points you cannot. In your example, this is what I might do:

before getting too far off route, I stop and touch the vehicle icon. Then save where I am at that moment as a favorite with a name I can remember. Then stop the route.

I then meander off for however long, as you say.

Then, when ready to return, I go to my saved place then restart the route, picking the VIA point to route to from where I am.

OR- sometimes I just set the recalculate mode to automatic and let the device do its thing and ignore it until I'm ready to rejoin the route. I then decide if I want to rejoin where it wants to or if I want to skip a point or 2 before rejoining. I do this by touching the screen and viewing the overall route.

These are also why I have my device wired directly to the battery- so it stays on all the time when in the cradle unless I turn it off. And I never turn it off.
Russ B. Zumo 595,
2007 USA Yamaha FJR1300A, 133k and counting
jcinoz
Posts: 9
Joined: 14 Aug 2020 09:01
Australia

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by jcinoz »

Thanks Russ. I really appreciate the advice and help from you and everyone else on this list!
Iris
Posts: 50
Joined: 31 Jul 2018 01:17
Been liked: 4 times
United States of America

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by Iris »

One of the things I have started to do recently is to create a track of the route. I upload both the track and the route to the unit. This way if I have any question whether or not I am not on my intended route, I can view the track on the unit and confirm that I have not somehow strayed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jfheath
Posts: 196
Joined: 19 Oct 2019 16:17
Location: West Yorkshire, Uk
Has liked: 4 times
Been liked: 44 times
Great Britain

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by jfheath »

I see it is starting to make a lot more sense now Russ ([mention]rbentnail[/mention] ).

[mention]jcinoz[/mention] - Russ's comment about using Via Points and not shaping points is well intentioned - and for setting off again in mid route, you do really do need a Via Point somewhere in the vicinity. This is because when you restart a route from fresh, the satnav will display a list of points as suggestions for your next destination. But it displays only the Via Points. As you will have read, my preference is to have Via Points placed securely on my route, but after any likely stopping off places (for coffee, lunch etc). I don't put them anywhere else. That way, if I decide to go walkabout, I have a marker in the satnav to get me back onto the correct route.

However - you have my document, so you can read about this - having a load of Via Points in a route presents its own issues. Even if they are placed 'slightly' off route, you have to visit them, or press Skip. 100m, 200m - I don't know). The shaping points behave like your 660 used to. ie - as long as you are on the original magenta route, it will navigate you to the next point. (Providing you haven't missed a Via Point). Shaping points are much more forgiving.

In the problem that you describe, the 595 should not lose your route when it is removed from the cradle. It shuts down, but it does not turn off. In fact, it doesn't lose the loaded route even if you shut it down completely (by holding the power button for a few seconds, and then pressing the red button on the screen to turn it off). So when you put the satnav back in the cradle, it knows exactly where you are and which point on the route is the next one to visit. You may have to press the 'View Map' button to see the magenta route. This can be confusing 'cos it seems to be inviting you to start again with the Main Screen 'Where To'.

(Since you are off route, what happens next depends on whether or not you have automatic recalcuation turned on).

If you really do need to reload the route and start again - there is something wrong with your battery, or you have accidentally stopped the route. But if you do, then you can choose a previous Via Point as the next destination. The whole screen map will show up with the original route and your position. This gives a good indication of how many points need to be skipped the Via Points are the orange flages, the shaping points are the blue circles - You will definitely need to skip the Via Point. You may need to skip shaping points if they are behind your current position - or you can just head for the magenta line and ignore instructions. As soon as you join it, it will start navigating in the correct direction.

[mention]Iris[/mention]'s point about loading a track is a good one. You can display it along with your route in a different colour. Most of the time, you won't see it - the magenta line covers it up, but when you go off route, the track from Basecamp shows up quite clearly. Note that small deviations are to be expected. If you press Skip, the 595 will recalculate the entire route and may have created a slight variation due to the profile it builds up about you, traffic and how fast you have been riding. Adding shaping points reduces the chance of following anything but your chosen route.
jcinoz
Posts: 9
Joined: 14 Aug 2020 09:01
Australia

Re: Shaping points enigma

Post by jcinoz »

Thanks so much for chiming in again [mention]jfheath[/mention]. You have already helped me enormously with your document which, although I haven’t yet reached the end, has given me enough insight to plan a few local routes in order to confirm expected behaviours before I plan the next major route in earnest. I’m particularly cognisant now of the crucial differences between via and shaping points and how to use them to their best effect, and have specifically built different scenarios around them into my test routes. Hopefully I will get some spare time this weekend to try these test routes out!

And thanks especially for clarifying the expected behaviour when the unit powers up again after being off. I didn’t realise I could click the view map button and my route would still be available. I thought the only choice was to choose the next via point and potentially lose my original route to that via point. Also you seem to be saying that I can choose a previous via point but continue from where I am on the original route, somehow choosing to skip the via point I have just asked to be taken to? I will definitely test that myself but do you expect that after I start riding, I will receive a prompt to skip the via point I asked to be taken to? That would definitely allay the fears I have about making stops along the route, scheduled or otherwise.

[mention]Iris[/mention]’s idea about the tracks is also a good one. I will certainly be loading them along with my routes from now on!

I can see that with this bag of tricks there should be ways and means to largely stay on the planned route but, for the record, I’ve raised a support request with Garmin to have an option to just start or follow the existing route without having to navigate to a via point first. You never know...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests